Quick FAQ on the new targeting stuff.

Thanks for the information, EMPstrike, I hope we're not going to lose the new system now.
But having back the old one, at least, will be wonderful.
It's my first time I try a "mixed mage", or "mage with swords", and it seems interesting, even if a little bit strange for me. But SotA seems encouraging this trend, with the "no class" statement... I like this new way too.

 

I actually finally found a way that I could switch from hating this new targeting system to absolutely loving it.

My latest ideas on this matter is making the new system a sub-system of the old system while also adding a mouse-look mode.

Give us click/tab static targeting under old system back and allow tab targeting when in mouse look mode. Here's the catch. If you have no target selected it will engage the new systems targeting formulas to choose a new static target for you for non stop action. Then give us an untarget button because sometimes stuff runs away and instead of trying to manually target something closer you can just un-target and start attacking again to instantly pull up a new target under the sub-systems formulas in range of your attacks. This allows melee to run around willy nilly swinging and auto-targeting whatever is in their target arch, but if they want to use a charging ability like "engage" they can tab target to the annoying archer behind the stuff in their face or switch to old mode and click the archer, they can now freely charge their target and go back to swinging willy nilly. This also satisfies the demand for ranged and healing to enjoy the benefits of the old system. You can even make static targeting and health bars a toggle in options if you want (I'm sure there's some pure warrior builds that would appreciate that)

I feel like this would be the best use of the new system, by making it a sub-system under the old system. The best of both worlds. I would actually support the new system under these conditions.

Under these conditions it would be an amazing supplement to the old system. It would give melee and amazing experience with mouse look mode while keeping the tried and true system that works for ranged and healers.


DEV TEAM - I'm calling you out. This is my challenge to you that I think would make this system awesome!!! ......instead of dreadful :'( -- Please SERIOUSLY CONSIDER THIS


Please like this post if you agree that this would actually be awesome!

 

The old system wont be back but the fix for the new one, based on what chris said, might be similar to selecting a target, holding that target, but still having to aim to hit yourtarget. Im not 100% on that specifically, but there is a fix incoming.

 

Reading runicpaine post an idea came to my mind: there could be some "alternative" targeting ways, all selectable by a dedicated keybind, which may form kind of "targeting chapter" into the Options' panel.

1. Ranged targeting: the old, traditional one, which all mages (and many archers ) loves. Nothing to add, we all know it: mouse-click or TAB to select the "wanted" or "nearest" enemy in turn
2. Melee targeting: the shiny new one, loved by warriors. No need to select any target: it's all done just having one in front +/- arc degrees.
3. Attacking targeting: if, at any time, you wish to switch from the target you're fighting to a the (other) one "you're receiving damage from" (sub selection: the nearest, the deadliest, the (more) mage/archer/warrior)
4. Dangerous targeting: at any time you can switch (or even start selecting) to the "most dangerous" of the in-range enemies, not depending to the kind/class (the higher fighting skill counts, maybe mixed with Stats).
   
5. "Class" (*) targeting: with this selection the enemy targets will be selected, in turn, from the "more skilled as" of the "class" you select in the Options ("warrior", "healer", "mage", "archer", "rogue"). If none of them is in range it behave like generic TAB-selection

(*) I know SotA is "classless", as everyone can train whatever skill he prefers, and nearly all "warriors" will cast some spell, and nearly all "mages" will be able to even use swords or bows... but, if I see an enemy who have the highest (combat) Magic trees' skill higher than the highest Combat trees' skill I can say he is "more versed into magical arts than into swords", AKA "a mage".
The same, if he have higher Combat's ranged skills than Tactic's subterfuge ones, I can say he is "better with bows than with pickpocketing or stunning", AKA "an archer" instead of "a rogue". All this for the simple reason he usually will use his "preferred skill" much more than the others he is even eventually training.

The reasons behind this idea:

Points 1 and 2 doesn't need further explanations.

3. It happens, when in the mess of the fight, you are being targeted by a distant (ranged) fighter you've no time to round-select with TAB or mouse-click pick-up: having a keybind to switch to that target (and, maybe, an Options' flag to "automatically switch to any target which attacks you") you can go attacking it faster, maybe using a charge. Leaving the related option to NO, you'll have the option to key-select him or not.
This why, while fighting, you're aware that "someone other is throwing arrows/casting spells at you", even if you can't see him directly: the skilled fighter, in a real fight, recognizes from where the attack is coming (the direction, not the person) and turns that side.

4. A seasoned fighter, (still in a real fight) is usually able to evaluate the "strength and danger" which comes from opposing fighters. We, in the game, are having in front of us much more "standard" avatars, with very less characteristics we can interpret: if a fighter is not holding his weapon we even can't understand if he is a swordman, an archer, a mage, a rogue... but in real life all them are usually well recognizable: by the weapons they carry, by the physical appearance, the way they move, and so on. This "targeting way" should cope with that lack of (game's) information. To compute the "most dangerous", a formula should evaluate the enemies' higher skill, mixing with Stats, kind of weapons, etc.: everything makes an enemy "stronger and dangerous" than another (not counting the players' personal abilities).

5. It even happens, in particular non-casual fights (e.g. wars, patrols, town's sieges, etc.) to have a "role": tank, mage/archer/healer/rogue killer, etc. Again, same as point 4, we usually have a few informations (or, even when we're having, a few time to evaluate them) about our opponents. Think about you, in the patrol, have the role to "kill the mages": this keybind will help you to "stay focused" to your primary target(s) in the mess of the fight.
Even here, as SotA have no classes, skills and stats are to be evaluated, to have a "more caster", a "more archer", etc. result.
This targeting system is (usually) not for casual fights but, if you are a town guard, or you received orders to target a particular kind of fighter, it will help you to stay on him.
​

All these methods are not "mandatory" but just "helps" and for sure they go beyond the "two standard" targeting systems: implementing them or not is up to the devs' thinking the explained reasons are valid in the game too (I thought more about real life cases than game's ones), to help the players in some particular cases I listed above, as one will usually end using ranged or melee methods. While playing into Ultima, it happened to me to think "it would be wonderful to have a way to select ... only", that's why.

 

If you'll have to "aim in front of you" , to at least acquire the target, it won't be that useful, comparing to traditional click/TAB-select:
1) if you're a melee fighter (and, maybe, archer) you've no problem as your target is always "in front of you" (Chris' assumption).
2) Archers have problems to throw arrows on targets that, even if "in front" are beyond the first line enemies.
3) Mages/healers just can't cast "in front of" moving targets as the (current) sight is too little, absolutely not that easy to point toward mid-to-far distant targets. Keeping in count that healers can still use F2-Fn to target their allies... but they have no Fx..Fy or ^F1...^Fn to target an enemy, the same as mages.

In my humble ingame's experience, I'm having enormous problems to "acquire" a target in front of me, even if it moves not that much, if I'm not at close range... I'm also a poor mage, who would cast a damn'd spell, not a sniper!
The only fix I can think of is to have BOTH systems available, or a "third system" which blend both ones, as devs prefer, but this one is melee-only (the same as the old one was nearly ranged-only).
Devs should remember that, even if they're developing the systems, it's we players who have to use them (flying over who is playing them).

 

Targeting Polish: We made several improvements to targeting to improve the new system and make sure it retained some of the function it had in the earlier system; like having a selected target. Changes include:

• Sticky Targeting: Your reticle will now pop onto a target when you get close and it will stay on it even if your camera is not directly on top of them. You can pull the reticle off either through cycling (see below) or by pulling your camera far enough away from the target.
• Softlock Target Selection: You can also "select" a target by holding shift and clicking on a target.
• Target Cycling: You can now once again cycle through targets by hitting the G key.
• Multi-Target Reticle: When you use a weapon or ability that allows you to hit multiple targets, your reticle now shows up on all possible targets.
• Over the Shoulder View: When you zoom into the avatar, the camera now moves over the shoulder instead of staying directly overhead so that you can better see your targets. As part of this, first person mode is now triggered by the V key.

 

The Rel 30 updates sound like a step in the right direction except for allowing us to control where we zoom into. I do not want over the shoulder camera. I want a camera right behind my head. I want to control where the camera zooms to. No desire at all for the game to force me to use a specific perspective or zoom coordinate. Let me choose. I want the reticle on the top center of my back. That is my play style. There is no reason that the end-user cannot determine where they want that zoom coordinate to be and play it their way.

Honestly I prefer to be able to completely rotate around my avatar and watch the fight from as many angles as I want. Why cheat us of viewing the animations from multiple perspectives?

I do hope by Release 32 we are there - right back to what many MMOs offered in 2003.... a camera and reticle that are not sewn to our backside.

Thanks.

 

I haven't seen it yet and won't know until after the patch, but I'm pretty sure you can still use whatever camera angle that you want, it's just that when you zoom in it won't default to blocking your line of sight with the back of your head.

I'm not sure about that, but overall this sounds great and I'm glad that we can maintain targets again.