Quick Thoughts

So I decided to log-in for the first time in months to make sure I didn't lose my lot deed (for whatever reason, I still care about this lol, probably cause I paid RL money for it). I logged in with my character but like I didn't know what to do quest wise it's been so long and the journal really isn't helpful. So I ended up using my second character slot to create a character.

So I stepped forward following some of the directions the game gives me and there's a book (a book that is easily missable) that gives you lots of information....wait a minute, who wants to read? I want to play! Okay but sure. I go through the tutorial mission and shockingly it hasn't changed much since the last time I played it like two years ago.

I did get put in a new map afterwards though which is cool but one of the main tutorial missions was to get 4 maple woods. What an arbitrary number. I was promised arrows and since I stuck with the bow my character came equipped with, I went to go looking for trees. Which meant going up to random trees and seeing if the button to chop them down came up. For some reason, even though this is a tutorial mission, there aren't plenty of maple trees to chop down. I finished playing when it asked me to get 4 iron ores.

The combat system isn't really that interesting right now either. The auto-attack from the bow means I use arrows (boo!) but they also die before they reach me. Why can't I switch weapons by the way? Random aside but I feel like a game like this should have multiple weapon slots where I can switch using the hotbar. Anyways I'm using the "fixed" rather than the "Random" hotbars right now.

There's the chat system with the NPCs and it wasn't immediately clear that the NPCs were looking for a specific reply to what they wanted me to do with a soldier that might be going nuts so I would ask them for something and they'd be like "I don't know how that would help him."

But really the game just isn't FUN.

I think the devs should look at one of their competitors: Final Fantasy 14.

That game has a story and it's expansion back is lauded as one of the best stories in the genre. I recently started playing that game and while the base main story is quite a grind and you don't chat with the NPCs, the quests are generally rewarding and some good stories ARE in there. There's some filler but when it's good, it's really good. It builds up the important NPCs with their unique looks and personalities and attempts to make you care about them. Why should I care about most of the NPCs I have encountered so far in Shroud? They all blend in together-bland personalities!

The combat is hotbar-based BUT as a Black Mage I have a cool system where I use fire spells-as I use fire, it builds up a fire bar and my spells get more powerful but use more MP and my MP recovery rate decreases. When I run out of MP, I switch to ice spells which has less powerful spells but MP recover rate increases significantly (then I switch back to fire spells). In between, there's thunder spells where I can add an area over time effect. So I'm not just mindlessly doing a rotation: I have to pay attention to my MP and the rest of the battle.

Other classes have their own unique mechanics that helps them stand out rather than just pressing numbers on the hotbat. It works WAY better than Shroud's static hotbar (and from what I remember of the card-based hotbar). So combat is better. Oh and the freedom Shroud offers? FF14 lets your characters switch classes at will (beginning at 10) so you can be a healer one day, a tank another day, melee DPS another day, ranged DPS other days and the game is remarkably well-balanced between the classes (helps that PVP balance is seperated from PVE balance as PVP skills are separate from PVE skills).

EVEN gathering (and I hate gathering) is better. You go to a node and you wait to mine like in this game but it gives you an option of what to gather (higher level items have a higher chance of failure). Wow, that's more dynamic and interesting than Shroud's crafting. Can't compare the other part of crafting yet.

I guess you could say the focus of the devs and the community is housing and decorations but...Final Fantasy 14 seems to do that better to do. Rare lots, most houses owned by free Companies (or guilds) with the option to have a personal room in your guild's house. You have decorations and such and you can also have vendors or something outside (but if you don't have a house, your vendor will automatically sell items for you on the auction house...no having to go from vendor to vendor to find the best price lol).

And so far the Final Fantasy 14 community I've found has been nice, welcoming, and great. While the world is a bit small, there's an insane amount of content that is varied. Even doing the main scenario means having to do dungeons...and there's plenty of optional dungeons/raids/trials. There's a mini-game area. There are mounts and minion pets and sightseeing clues! So much to do and collect. Heck, they have a 100-room rogue dungeon crawler in there!

Square didn't just focus on housing/decorations. They built a whole game and they made sure it was fun. My challenge to the devs is for a few months don't do anything with housing/decos and just focus on the other parts of the game!

 

Hello there and I understand what you're saying about ffxiv. I played it for about 6 to 8 months when it first came out. It's a gorgeous game for sure in so many wonderful ways. I can't argue with that. It's also a AAA game that had a triple A budget.

So what to say to that player wondering why in the world they would want to play this game and not one like ffxiv?

Well I have been here since Nov 2013 watching and participating with constructive feedback and ideas to help this game evolve and grow into all it deserves to be.

At first look someone may see that this game is lacking in so many of the fundamental basics any mmo should definitely have.

Also what else may be seen and what may also stand out is that this game is an unpolished, unfinished, and sometimes confusing world.

So again the question is why play it and why does anyone play it?

So really it's all a choice for one thing. If someone sticks around long enough to see what that could possibly be what they may find out is why we are here.

There are things here true not yet refined or polished enough but imagine what can be done and is still being done has been to me amazing to watch and be a part of. This game unlike ffxiv is still being created and improved upon every day with a very small budget and small team who are putting their heart and soul into this game.

In this game you can be whatever you want. For example you can create your own world.

I have a school of rock that is a musical building. If you explore the building you can click on sheet music of all types while sitting at a piano or standing if you have an instrument equipped. You can also join a group of up to 8 players and sync many songs playing many instruments. I have classrooms and my class is called Music 101. I have a song vendor who sells songs.

Also we have merchants who just love the challenge of buying and selling. Some do mail order businesses. We have an in game mail-system that allows you to send almost anything by mail including gold.

We also have capabilities to create many types of decks. I have a healing deck with no dmg and dual wands added to it if I want to play a healer role then in 1 click I can switch to my 2 handed axe. Wands and axes are both bludgeons and I'm specialized in bludgeons skill tree and life tree. We have no caps so we can try it all if we want.

Also many other types of decks can be set up for any occasion. I can click my party clothes deck and switch to my party clothes, or click again and switched to a ranged skill deck since we have pesky elementals in one mine I hate to chase around.

Some new things We recently got capabilities to have our very own dungeons. So you can have a basement and dungeon on any lot. Treasure hunting will be coming also for episode 2. Another thing will be added is that npc's will be able to be programmed or what's the word hmm set up to say special things like give quests etc.

We also got teleport to zone scrolls which mark every place you visit. Just add to your non-combat bar and use the control key to see what is in every location. MArk all your mines for example.

Also you may have properties you stopped in to visit for a reason to visit and I'm happy you were able to. Check back again anytime.

We may not be ffxiv but some do call this game their virtual home. Those of us who watch the game continue to improve and grow are here for a reason. We are a community rooting for something more from this game, something different, unique, special, and full of promise for us. So here's hoping.

I know ffxiv is a special game as well in its own ways. I love the fishing in that game for example. There doesn't have to be only one game or for some it does need to be just one. If some will get something out of different games then it is a win-win. It's most important to enjoy what you're doing.

For this game it's still moving forward a step at a time.

I'm Majoria in game if I can ever help. I help manage and live in Wizards Rest located in Hidden Vale behind Owlshead. I'd be happy to show you around the game anytime.

Also visit the School of Rock. I made it for anyone to visit. Don't forget to point at the wall signs for the trivia wall.

Sorry for the lengthy hello. I'm out of town visiting my mom and will return Sept 22 home and to the game. *cheers*

 

I guess also in FF14 you have to get somehow information by reading or are there no explanations needed?

That’s quite an interesting response as e.g. the floating island above the world isn’t any more part of the start as you do not get a choice anymore where to start. A part of the old members are missing that scene and choice but it seems that others not even recognize the missing. Another interesting info is that the work on the NUE seems to be less obvious if you are not recognizing any change.

Are you really complaining that you just need to collect 4 instead of a more common 10?

Again interesting that new users not recognize that there is a general outstanding appearance for trees you can harvest as this is basically the goal of this quest…maybe in this context the number 4 is really too small to let new avatars understand that.
Oh and even if this is a tutorial it is already part of the normal game. Crafting is in SotA the way to get most likely the best gear and that way resources are important to the economy.
In games where crafting is not important or at best an occupation you can do that but creating outstanding numbers of resource nodes in an easy region would be a collapse to the market.

Well you are using your bow to shot arrow at an enemy…of course this should reduce the number of arrows you have…well at least if there should be any realism in this fictional virtual world.

I’m not using it but as far as I remember you can. You can create different decks and set one to be your primary skill deck and another to be your secondary deck. There is a key to switch between those two decks but I think there is also a semi-transparent symbol downright you can click on.
And with the decks you can connect your gear and this way on switching your deck you can automatically switch your gear. I think most are using this to have e.g. a buff build, a combat build, craft build or RP build.

Well I guess this is more a problem of habit. I would guess you just clicked on all the marked keywords without reading what the NPC was talking as this is the way conversations are handled in many games….just speed clicking without a need to read anything. In SotA many quests work that way too but I think there are already a few quests where this habit will result in a maybe not wanted end as you have sometimes options how you would like to solve a quest…and sometimes NPC are even not willing to repeat what they said or just in a shorter less informative form. As far as I remember the generally intention was to use mostly these choice quests but at least in the beginning the simple one direction quest were used as they are much easily to create.

Should you have fun too? You bet! But reading your posts I’m not sure this is possible without making the game less fun for others.

Well I wouldn’t see FF14 as a competitor. As @majoria70 already said there is a big difference in the budget but also I would say the target groups are different. To me the story of FF was never really that engaging…I guess for my liking to unrealistic.
As far as I remember there are unique NPCs in FF like in most RPGs but compared to the general number of NPCs these are always just a few and I would guess the three story NPCs that can join your party in offline mode could be SotA’s counterparts. But I think there are some more NPC that have their own opinion on different subjects ( e.g. the rulers and their attendants in Aerie) but they are not that outstanding and at least for me seems to be more integrated into the world…they are primarily not there to please you as they have their own role in novia.
Generally I would like to see a change of NPC behaviors depending on your reputation/virtue. Basically if you are a nobody the NPCs should act that way and if you are the hero who saved the world they should change their manners.

Well I would say it is the same in SotA even if there is room for improvement but I guess there is no built that is working in all situations and that way even the strongest avatars have from time to time to adapt to the situation.

The freedom many are talking about is that there is no healer, tank or melee DPS class. It is completely up to you what you would like to create…either a healer that is using swords in close combat or a tamer that is using chaos magic or a water mage with a bow...there are no restrictions and if you don’t like your skills you can reset them and start anew.
With fixed roles and fixed skills it is a lot easier to balance the skills compared to the "chaotic" system SotA has…but I guess that is also a great motivation for many avatars.

Well I guess it is better as you described it as it sounds quite annoying to always have to select first what kind of items I would like to try to harvest at a node before starting the normal process of harvesting and claim the resources...it simply sounds like such a mechanic is raising the needed time to harvest a node by 1/3.
I guess a specialization would be more fitting for my taste...you simply chose once what type of resources you prefer and that way your get more resources of the type you chose and lesser of the type you not chose.

I would say their focus is on combat as I would say adjusting skills and creating new scenes or new challenges is taking by far the most dev time.

Well I don’t know for sure but I would say most games use instancing while the focus of decoration in SotA is consistence. If you have a room this room has to be somewhere and thus you need a place for that room that is preventing others to have a room at the same spot. There are also a lot of avatars sharing their room with others and I guess most guilds could offer you a room too but in contrast with instances everyone would know that this place is yours and yours alone.

Well in SotA everyone can have a house and that way a vendor but of course the vendor system is somehow problematic as it takes time to find a fitting vendor if you search something special but otherwise I also don’t like auction houses. There are in the large NPC towns already local auctioneers but I still prefer to roam the areas even if I would like to have some guidance to find a fitting vendor. E.g. by using some kind of search function (Where are vendors who sell item X) or visually guidance (the vendors display their wares).

I bet there are a lot of nice game communities but SotA is also offering the possibility to be part of the development and this combination is quite unique.

 

I think they should play other games, period. As I do, I keep coming across features where I'm like "I wish that was in Shroud".

I found Fallout 76 housing to be much more fun. No pre-defined houses. No housing lot locations that are dictated by POT owners or devs. With few exceptins, you can plop your house down wherever you want. A bog. In the forest. On the cliff edge of a scenic overlook. I wish I could do that in Shroud.

7 Days to Die has a superior crafting system.

• If you click on an item, there's an option to open up all recipes that use it. You can then click a recipe and go at it.
• There's a freakin' SEARCH (talking about the recipe book)
  
• It takes time to build things, but they go into a queue and you can walk away and do other things.
• You can make exactly what you want. No RNG. Of course there's no economy, so it's not entirely compatible... but it is, in fact, more fun because of it.

7 Days to Die actually rewards exploration. You wander into a house. You notice a loose floor board. You chop it up with an axe, and find a bag that has guns and ammo. Yay! One thing I've been thinking about, is how much Shroud of the Avatar was largely castrated by having this emphasis with a player crafting being the main source of items. That's devastated exploration rewards, boss loot rewards, etc, and they've been struggling to bandaid it forever. If they were going to do player-driven economy, then it needed to be paired with full-loot PVP, and item destruction. So they basically chose the worst combination of mechanics.

I played Dungeon Seige. Up to 8 companions, each of which you can switch to, level up, equip, and go on some dungeon-bashing mayhem. Here, even your one pet is wimpy. There is a loose analog in offline mode companions.

Eve Online has regional economies. It has a permission, player-management system even more elaborate than Shroud. There's a contract system. You can make a career out of just hauling other peoples' stuff around. The mechanics are deep.

I keep playing other games, and seeing the shortfalls of SOTA.

 

Like the posts above stated you can't really compare SotA to FF. Shroud has a much smaller budget and team. You shouldn't compare an indy game to a AAA developer. What Shroud lacks in creative quests and NUE it definitely makes up in art and housing. Scenes in Shroud are so beautiful that it's breath taking at times. Housing/deco is also second to none. While the game does lack quality in mechanics and the need to ensure balancing trumps giving players a fun atmosphere to attract a large crowd like FF or other AAA titles. Shroud caters to the RP housing deco crowd, while FF titles cater to the entire FF story line. You should compare apples to oranges.

 

"Compare" doesn't mean "equate". Of course you can compare SOTA to FF. Budget size would be one of the dissimilarities revealed by that comparison.

Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine. Literally anything can be compared to anything.

"estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between."

 

There for sure are many things from other games that would be lovely in shroud, but the same thing can be said from other games while playing shroud! One of my favorite things, the thing that gets me hooked the most in this game, is the combat system, being able to have the deck of my choosing! When I played other games, I HATED playing a class to then see someone do something with his class, and wanting to do it too, only to have to play through hours of beginner/mid level content only to get back to that point. In shroud, If I want to cast Ice Arrows in heavy armor with dualwielded weapons while my Pet is drawing agro away from me, I can!

I'll agree, many things need some love, but I think it is unfair to say all these other games have all these nice systems (which some couldn't fit in SotA), without thinking that those games have shortcomings too!

 

I definitively agree. As much as people complain about SOTA having no endgame... playing 7DTD is even worse. After a week or so, you're sitting on a mountain of guns and ammo. You have your vehicle fleet, etc.... and you're like "now what"? Especially if you play solo.

But it's simple B2P. No microtransactions, subscriptions, etc. So I don't feel any pressure/investment to keep playing. The percentage of fun vs. time playing is very high.

 

Maybe you are playing an already existing character? Or did they put back Isle of Storms and not tell us?

Switch to swords magic/bludgeon by opening the Deck Builder. You can find it in the window selector.

When you have built the deck, don't forget to set the correct gear to the appropriate deck by equipping it and hitting the button that says something like "use this gear"

 

I'm not going to defend SotA but there's no rule that says you have to choose one game over another. You can play both or don't play SotA at all. Whatever you want to do.

 

I was a Kickstarter backer and one of the reasons I backed this project WAS the story. Yes, I get Shroud doesn't have a triple AAA budget. I don't expect Shroud to have a 100-level rogue dungeon. That would take LOADS of resources for the small team. But come on creative quests? That's something Shroud should be all about especially with its budget level. The NUE isn't really that good, sure, but if the story was hooking players then it wouldn't matter as much. The first NPCs you meet should absolutely be leaving you with an impact. (In FF14 the introducing scene introduces a major character, his sister, and a merchant you don't seem to meet again...but I remember them all! That's good writing!)

A talented writer doesn't need triple AAA money. He just needs...talent, skill, and execution. Also some time. I don't expect every NPC in Shroud to be memorable but the quest NPCs? Yeah, they should have a little personality.

(Also the art in this game isn't very good. It's fine, better than I remember, but come on, nobody's going to write home about Shroud's graphics.)

It's fine you can be whatever you want in this game, but I mean FF14 literally just launched a major expansion pass and is being improved and updated constantly. Granted it has a high budget but anyways: those same buildings you can make, you can do in FF14. Heck, I read an article where someone in another server built a miniature city in his house! Granted FF14 doesn't let players build dungeons...because it has so many already.

I know you are into the game, I recognize you over the years I've lurked and occasionally posted on this forum, so I'm happy you like it or still see the potential. I also still see the potential, hence why I'm saying the devs should explore other games in the genre and get ideas.

There is some reading but it's generally brief and the game is very good at giving you the information you need when you first encounter it. Obviously, you have to read what the NPCs have to say most of the time (sadly not enough voice-over acting like in ESO) but like...it's generally pretty quick so I can get back to playing.

As for the freedom, that would be great if I didn't keep reading that people keep building the same "alpha" builds over and over again because some combos/skills are just better than others. I'd much rather have classes and defined roles that you can pick than having to manually build out the same archetypes in order to be competitive in PvE (or PVP). Anyways I did read what the NPCs had to say. Hence why I think they need more personality. When almost every NPC gives the same response to the same keyword, well...your just inviting me not to read what they say lol.

Anyways I disagree that combat/skills/scenes are their focus. If it is, they are doing a pretty poor job at making that clear. Most of what I read in updates has to do with housing. I mean the "big" thing this release was mannequins. Which is what the people here want but does nothing to advance the gameplay problems this game does have.

For the record, I'm not saying Shroud should become FF14. I'm saying that FF14 does a lot what Shroud wanted to do (minus the world map/random encounters) and did it in ways the Shroud dev team could learn from.

 

I'm not sure I remember the Isle of Storms. So maybe my memory is a bit faulty from years ago but it pretty much felt the same. But no I definitely went through the character creation window yesterday. My memory's good enough I can remember things from yesterday.

(My PC game is the original Pillars of Eternity right now so if I finish early, I'll log back into Shroud and play some more. Maybe I will switch to swords/bludgeons.)

 

You answered your own question/issue. Priorities for each release has more to do with housing/deco, permission based housing, than developing or flushing out a story in this game. If you read the forums much you'll notice that the game is developed more for housing & RP purposes. Not for end-game, raiding, adventuring/looting like FF14. While FF14 is more of a MMO game, Shroud is more of a multiplayer RPG.

 

A similarity is both games had rough launches filled with a lot of the same complaints: it didn't feel complete, wasn't very fun, unpolished. Square could have let the game die or just keep it going hoping to eventually fix it. But Square though the launch was so bad it damaged the Final Fantasy brand. So instead, Square looked at the project, overhauled the development team (something Portalarium will never do), literally ended the original world (bad idea for Shroud probably), and came back with a new client with better gameplay mechanics, a more complete world, and a lot more polish (no money to do this for Shroud).

There are similarities but yes there also differences.

Not really an RPG period if the story isn't developed/flushed out very well. This is more Fantasy Sims with some tacked on fantasy combat. Which is very far than the promised game from the Kickstarter lol. Which is fine for the people who have spent money/time to build up the house they wanted and who like to RP amongst themselves. But it's not very good for attracting casual players who don't want to spend RL money or RL time to get to the housing/deco part of the game since it's locked behind either story or cash (whether real or in-game). At this rate, it MIGHT be better if Shroud gave people lot deeds from the start, took away taxes, and just focused on letting people build up their homes. Get them into the real SOTA endgame as soon as possible lol.

(Obviously no real need for vendors for PVE purposes since PVE isn't a focus so you might want to rethink vendors from selling weapons and stuff to selling decorations. Simplify the combat and the skill system.) Not the game I would want, or the game I backed, but then maybe Shroud could really grow it's player base.

 

So are you talking about Battle of Solace Bridge as the tutorial area?

 

Yes. The current tutorial area. The area I did yesterday.

 

I see. I didn't realize they had put the book in somewhere.

 

Well all I can say is, I have been here for a VERYYYYYYYYY long time..... But as of this year, I have been playing less and less to the point when I log in , I log back out because I cannot bear to grind the same ole zones again or even the new stuff it is just not fun .... Combat and exploring are so darn boring.... fishing is boring, there is only so much you can do with housing ….. I need more then this.... I need FUN, in combat and exploring while I venture into the unknown, with fun quests, and not have it feel so punishing and unrewarding.... explore? explore what? The zones are so small, I can spit and have it hit the other end of the zone..
I am now at the point where I am seriously thinking of cancelling my subscription, since I don't play much anymore.... I need to hear from the devs, what are their plans for EP.2 written out where I can read it for myself, and decide whether I'd want to continue my financial support for this game or not... .. Sorry Dev's I tried to hang in there for this game, but I see nothing happening to this game that is fun and rewarding. all I see is more eye candy, and fluff which we have so darn much of already.... nuff said …. JMHO from a frustrated SOLO player who loves playing in a multiplayer world.

 

Don't go yet, they just introduced a new dungeon! I haven't gotten an answer to if it has any quests related to it or if it's just thrown in there to fill a void. Either way you'll have a new place to venture at least until you reach the end of the dungeon. Sounds like it's just filled with the same monsters as other places, but perhaps it'll have some new mechanics that we haven't seen yet. So don't leave yet!

What's the time frame for Ep2? I haven't heard or seen anything on the streams about this.

 

My opinion is that Shroud allows you to make your own fun. There is no "Amusement Park" feel of queued of events and in game hand holding. But you can design a completely customized build that allows you to play the game they way you like. I am an older guy and don't need the "achievements and check boxes" experience. I like the different possibilities and complexity that Shroud offers. Everybody likes what they like , Shroud is not for everyone, but for those who do appreciate its strengths, its amazing.