Random Discussion About Chris' Daily Blog

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Chris, Apr 5, 2017.

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  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    I don't always post too much on forum, but today I want to share with you my point of view.

    I have to be honest, if someone think to have more chance than now to win pvp after @Chris changes you're totally wrong.
    I want to remember to all that this is a skill-based game, top pvpers will just adapt to the new situation and will win again and again.

    Changes will not help and who train and pratice everyday pvp, dedicating every minute spent in sota to it, will stay the winner, and this is fair!

    It's not your adventuring level, your gear, your points spent in schools, your resist, tank mages, cloth tanks, archers, polearm users, earth mages or necromancer, it's just how you combine all variables, how you play, how much you praticed and how good are your reflexes.

    My advice to all Sunday Pvpers is to come and see the Virtue League Tournament, you will be surprised to see what people can do in this wonderful game, defining their builds in every details, removing and adding new stuff to their deck to discover who's the best pvper at the end of the day.

    Talking about me, i'm still level 97 (Yea a level 97 who can beat lvls 120+ without using uber skill trees or being a grifier), and from level 75, nerf by nerf, i ruled and still ruling the pvp scene from long time with near any available build-combo in game.
    I'm always ready to test if someone doesn't agree with this statement.

    A little example of what i mean is the fact that many are complaining about heavy chest mages, can you remember what happened times ago? https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...ase-36-major-changes.71402/page-2#post-704093
    After an year of complains about cloth tank mage now they started to blame heavy chest armor mages, and when there will be no more heavy armor mages they will find something else to complain again.

    Developers in my opinion should ignore these kind of whim.

    This is reality, it's not just SotA, if you're good pvper you can rule any games just praticing and dedicating all your available time to that.

    PVP is a science not a math!
     
  2. Crendel

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    My only issue is what I thought was an early premise that there was no specific classes and we could make our avatar be anything. But with mastery and according to your linked sheet if I build an avatar (for example) when I solo I use death for the aoe and death shiel I won't be able to be a very good healer in group due to the limitations of mastery. Or did I read that wrong
     
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  3. Cora Cuz'avich

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    So, if those resistance changes happen, does that mean if you want to be a death mage, you're gonna probably want to carry a lot of health potions?
     
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  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Or, no, that'd be only if you put xp into "Death Mastery." If you didn't put XP into it, things would work as they do now.
     
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  5. Brass Knuckles

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    @Chris I like it!

    Specialty is good, please get @Kor to help you.

    It would be cool if your *specialized in air tree for example you could ignore a % of the stunning effects or generate a reduction in the stun time.

    Fire slower ticks, ice less of a slow etc. (More work but definitely a deeper system).

    Well done sir.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  6. Jaanelle DeJure

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    +1000 ya was very happy to see the "web guy" in the combat deep dive. **Cough cough PROMOTION cough cough**
     
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  7. Cryodacry

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    Ok i am going to do some break down for everyone in regards to how the new combat math for resistance will afffect you on the now verse then.


    Currently this is the spell delta formula

    Multiplier =POW(((Atk - Def)+200)/200,1.5)

    Atk = total attunement
    Def = (attunment / 2) + resist

    Example

    Atk=200
    Def= (100/2)+50

    1.837 =POW(((200-100)+200)/200,1.5)

    Meaning a spell you cast for 100 damage turns into a spell doing 184 damage (rounded)

    AFter the change this is how it will work.

    Multiplier =POW(((Atk - Def)+200)/200,1.5)

    Atk = total attunement
    Def = MAX((attunment / 2), Resistance) this means it will take the greater of the two values. Resist pots and flute of defiance are still unknowns atm.

    So using the same values....

    Atk=200
    Def= Max((100/2), 50)

    2.315 =POW(((200-50)+200)/200,1.5)

    Meaning that 100 damage spell turnes into 232 damage (rounded)


    Now it will take 100 resistance to equal the old math.... that being said it is not the end of the world and you will probably be doing more damage now.
     
  8. Datendrache

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    Okay, quick review as requested...
    • Each point in * Mastery provides

      • 0.75 points resistance to opposite school

      • -0.4 attunement to opposite school

      • 0.2 attunement to selected school

      • -0.2% focus cost for selected school

      • 0.2% focus cost for opposite school
    If I were to make GM Mastery (4m each) in two opposing skills, would my 8m combined exp have a net win?

    I would gain resistance to both sides.
    Both sides would have a net loss of -0.2 attunement for each point
    Everything else would be the same.​

    Conclusion: Never a good idea to raise mastery in two opposing skills, almost certain waste of exp unless you never use those skills (like fire/water or sun/moon), in which case you get resistance at the cost of attunement.

    Comment: I don't see why someone can't benefit from using both skills, it would be advantageous in a classless system. If there is a penalty, I feel it should be net-net win, only not as great...

    For example:

    0.75 points resistance to the opposite school (or .5... on a per point basis, having 75 additional points of resist for GM might be a bit chunky..)
    -0.1 attunement to opposite school
    +0.2 attunement to selected school
    -0.2% focus cost for selected school
    -0.1% focus cost for opposite school

    GM both and you get resists for both sides (same as before), slightly higher attunement on both sides but half power, and lower focus cost for both sides, half power. That way, 8m may be worth spending this way.

    Comment 2: Why isn't there a resistance bonus given to the selected skill? I'd expect some understanding of protection for being so good at it.

    For example, you could break down 0.75 points resistance into 0.50 of opposite skill and 0.25 of selected skill.

    Sincerely,

    Engineer
     
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  9. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I think the whole idea is not to have a net win for raising everything. I believe the idea is that the Mastery skills are either to specialize in certain trees, or to provide resistance without casting spells, without also making current "level all the skills" types more powerful.
     
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  10. redfish

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    As far as the Tactics passive is concerned, and even somewhat the Focus passives, I don't really like the idea of designing the game so non-mages can get strong magic resistance somehow just for not being mages. I would rather non-mages rely on gear.

    I have less an issue with the resistance for oppositional schools... but for specialization, I'd still rather see this encouraged by reagent reqs... reqs for 1st tier spells, and at least one unique reagent per school. Passive resistance also would make less necessary active skills. Water Resistance vs. Douse, for instance. Which is a shame, since active skills are much much more fun to play with than passive skills.

    Mastery also still doesn't really solve other balancing problems like Light vs torches, Heal vs food or potions, and as a concept to encourage specialization still seems like a min/max cop-out in place of something more solid.

    Sorry if my feedback can't be more constructive if this is definitely the way the game is going, but I'm still on a different wavelength, and I see a lot of downsides to this design directions versus others.
     
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  11. Diab Blackbow

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    This all looks overly complicated a few months from release and destined to fail. I guess we will just have to see and adapt. I was hoping for simply a magic resist passive maybe even requiring the same amount of XP as the health/focus ones or even the stat passives.

    As an Archer/life magic user with Death Magic off spec, I think I will need to do a lot of changes.

    "Players can specialize in a wide range of combat and non-combat skills, provided by a robust, classless skill system, and full-featured crafting and housing mechanics. Play the way you want to play, molding your character into the hero, anti-hero, or artisan you want to be!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  12. Koss

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    I really like your approach on this. Great idea!
     
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  13. Gyzarus

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    Try out PVP first for those who hasn't, end of story
     
  14. Tsumo2

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    Hold on a second, I know I put my slide rule around here somewhere.
     
  15. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Would this be a bad time to suggest we may have been a lot further ahead in resolving these actual issues, if not for having been derailed for several releases by all the complaints about there being no hard caps? The whole "attenuation" system is a moot solution to a non-problem. I would say "IMO" except I think the facts of the situation have most clearly been borne out by now.

    A great example of how meaningful changes that would benefit everyone get delayed because of a small, but highly vocal and doggedly persistent, minority with a perception problem, and an irrational aversion to reading and maths.

    Again... I like what has been proposed here. But I say we should consider abandoning the notion of an R52 launch ASAP. Otherwise when all these changes are inevitably NOT balanced in 3 releases, I fear we will have to contend with fresh fodder for the "broken promises" camp... Or worse... A broken game in commercial release.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  16. Andartianna

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    I was not threatening. I was providing accurate information. Protecting digital assets is something I am working on with legislators in Washington State. We have some of the most stringent laws concerning digital property in the world. As we move into a world where more and more digital assets are worth real money laws protecting them will be increasing. It is something any business should consider when making choices about what to include in games. I have seen too many cases where companies claim to just be a pass through and players are responsible for the misuse of their products loose in court and end up paying a ton of money. I want this game to be successful and not have to deal with legal problems regrading sanctioned digital theft. Did you not notice that deeds suddenly stopped being available right after rulings came out of Europe that said loot boxes were gambling? Just because one might not agree with the laws doesn't mean one can break them.
     
  17. Elrond

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    Apparently i forgot my ox belt equippedo_O , just found out now, so last 2 days been playing in ''slow motion'' and i didnt know why the hell i was so slow and why fleet flute wasnt increasing my speed ...:)
     
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  18. MrBlight

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    Or maybe some elaboration on these changes they had planned ( like adding masteries ) may have been insightful for the months of people asking about real solutions to the problems?

    Your right in the aspect a major change with REAL SPECIALIZATION is something that shouldnt have come this late. But i simply counter the * blame the people who want to know the plan, for the delay * , with, * share the plan sooner, not 70ish days to go.

    Personally i think its a good step in one of the MAJOR issues the game has, which is pretty clear to anyone with 80ish adv level, or whove ever pvp d. But i DO think its going to be one hell of a cram to add this, on top of all the other balancing to try to make a ... rough system... passable before release.

    Ive personally asked specifics on specializing, and the glaring.. jack of all trades that the average player will feel, and issues with it.
    They DID mention the idea of a specilized skill about... 8 months? Back? .. so id argue i wish they would have talked it out to public sooner and gotten it implemented sooner.
    But maybw that silence.. led to derailment of topics ( which i dont actuslly belive had any real impact on the devs time table ).

    But kaay.
     
  19. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Apologies if I misinterpreted the tone of your comments. So to be clear... You personally would be for or against a bill making online game operators financially responsible for a player losing their "digital assets" as a result of an opt-in, consensual, PvP system?

    Either way, I still am having a hard time seeing the connection to lootboxes. According to my understanding, it is the gambling aspect of them that is the root of the issue there.
     
  20. Andartianna

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    Pick pocket is not consensual as there is not a benefit to both sides. It is also not pvp as there is no engagement by the person being stolen from. It is simply theft of digital assets and should be illegal. For loot boxes yes it was the gambling which is illegal. Theft of assets is also illegal. The correlation is that the way laws are going for digital assets. Now that gambling for digital assets are illegal it is only a matter of time until theft of digital assets as also illegal. Planning ahead for these changes in laws is good business practice.
     
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