Random Discussion About Chris' Daily Blog

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Chris, Apr 5, 2017.

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  1. Scoffer

    Scoffer Avatar

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    The cost isn't really relevant its the precedent it sets. If you don't like decay you can pay to have it removed. Its a slippery slope to an obsidian potion of RNGunfustercluck that removes the RNG while crafting....for a price.
    The amount of rage that decay has caused on this forum is a testament to the development cycle of the game and port (or Chris) has stuck their guns against a relentless tirade of the angry mob. To just let you pay to remove it just seems wrong.

    Of course I reserve the right to do a complete 180 on my opinion when crafting decay hits and finally screws me.
     
  2. eli

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    yea echoing the sentiment of "why cotos tho?"

    make it a loot bundle drop
     
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  3. Hornpipe

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    I use multishot on multiple targets. On the paper, it's rather a very effective skill, but I would say it doesn't have many qualities other have : It's not a fire and forget AOE like some convenient spells AND it's not as effective as corpse explosion as a one shot skill under many circunstances, so... I have a level 76 corpse explosion and when I am in a crowded fight, I can instantly kill a group with that spell (and DEATH damages when it's all about physical... reminder here !!! :p) whereas my much more leveled multishot must wait for VERY wounded targets (like 5% health left) to do that. Those two skills seem to be designed as if corpses were rare and ranged targets are always packed (and without armor). I think that it's not true.

    Everything is about balance. Losing only one quarter or one half of the day accumulated decay to be easy for an entire week sounds too great to be good. People who strive to not die at all would feel bad about that.
    First, I think that an obsidian potions against decay should only prevent decay loss when resurrected (yes, to support groups, not the badass guy who do the monkey room all the day). Secondly, I think that the obsidian potion effect should be decreasing with time. -100% the first day, -85% the second, -70% the third, -55% the fourth, -40% the fifth, -25% the sixth, -10% the seventh, in order to avoid the "I must be safe, I will pay my tax for one week" effect, and in order to promote player's choices about timing. If the potions don't sell at all with such a thing, you can always change the way they work later...

    When you will change the Archery proficiency for something else than focus and arrow preservation, you will be safe :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  4. kaeshiva

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    But you're not just paying to remove it. You're paying to take the penalty now and have a week's insurance, or sacrificing xp gain to have a week's insurance.
    In normal circumstances, I have gone MONTHS without dying, I'm not decaying at all - but the cost is not enjoying the game to its fullest by avoiding risky/challenging content, not participating in group content that can get me killed, and even being less likely to 'share' my grind with a party because its all 'in case of death' tax. If I carry on with my normal activity - I don't need it - it would cost me more than I lose in a week to take the initial hit. But, it does give me the peace of mind that, if I do want to go explore somewhere new or try something different I'm not going to end up setting myself back to last Tuesday if it doesn't go well.

    If the objective of decay is to make 'high lvl players' lose xp, I will lose more using this potion than I ever did without it, that's the absolute truth. But I could change my extremely reserved behavior and go wild a bit, which would put a lot of fun back in the game that decay removed from the game.
     
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  5. Evilgamer

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    re: the decay potion idea,

    The entire concept of "decay" and that "top end" players need to be punished for...being "top end" players is pretty much why I stopped playing and financially supporting the project.

    SO its an interesting idea, would I give up a days forced decay not to worry about it for a week? probably. But the whole idea of decay just needs to go away to begin with. You didn't convince me to change the way I played, you convinced me not to play at all. I dropped in last night to refresh my property for another 6 months but that was about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  6. kaeshiva

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    I agree it doesn't -need- to be a coto potion, though making 'yet another thing' rely on the 'bundle RNG' is extremely irritating. It would be one thing if the potion had no downsides, fine, make it a rare drop, but with the hefty penalty I am assuming its going to have, in whatever manner, it needs to be something players can make a conscious choice to obtain and use, or not.

    How about making it craftable using some of this junk that has no use? Aortic Thrombuses, borers, cutworms....add in a couple thousand gold of cashsink reagents and you've approximated the coto value without making it a coto.
     
  7. kaeshiva

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    Well, I do have to completely agree, that decay is not slowing down top players at all and is a pointless mechanic entirely. But if we can't be rid of it entirely, this would at least mitigate it a bit. I'll pay my weekly pound of flesh to enjoy the game without the silly death tax.
     
  8. Scoffer

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    I'm not against the idea of it, i'm against making it an obsidian potion. Make it a blessing that gives you a few hour protection or a craftable potion that gives you an hour long buff or something of that type.
    Putting it in as a coto payment means you HAVE to have it. Just roll it up as a weekly tax at which point the argument is why bother with any it all? The only people who won't be paying that tax are those that either decay doesn't effect because are lower level or those that are so high that it doesn't matter because they don't die. If the purpose of decay was to slow down the gains of the top tier players then putting in a potion to stop decay isn't going to change a single thing about that. They will either pay like everyone else and carry on as normal or just not pay because they don't need it.

    So why not just remove decay or drop it down to 25% of what it is now across the board?

    At least having it as a blessing means you are limited to two of them so if you decided to go try dragon slaying you could take that blessing in place of something else.
    Or have the oracle give you the option every day, you can take 500 gold and 500 xp or you can take 24 hours of decay protection.
     
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  9. kaeshiva

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    Losing even a quarter/half (the regular decay on death hit) is a tremendous amount of xp for me - usually more than I average in an entire evening of normal (non-grind) play. I strive to not die at all, and rarely die, but its because I've changed my behavior in game to cut out anything that has a chance of hitting me with "setback tax."

    Making this restricted to Resurrection only severely dilutes the benefit of the potion to the point where its not really worth it - I usually run around alone cause there's not enough mob/resource density for this to be efficient with more people. Diminishing returns makes it not worth taking the initial hit, either. Even if implemented without these penalties, I will still lose more xp than I'm losing now if I use this potion - but at least I can relax a bit and not panic if the phone rings mid-combat, or if I get lag, or if I want to go try something stupid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  10. Scoffer

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    The only issue with this is that the top end players would just drag an alt around that can res and stand them at the entrance to whatever they are doing
     
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  11. kaeshiva

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    I think the issue with this would be the necessary "downside." I don't want to take the decay hit cause I accidentally jumped in the wrong blessing fountain, or clicked the wrong option at the oracle, when I don't need it.

    If we had this potion, and it was too expensive either in terms of gold/cash price OR in terms of penalty, then it will change nothing - people will just carry on as they are now with all the negative side effects that having a decay system is causing. I think a coto is reasonable, or approximate the cost via making it a crafted consumable (although with a Coto, at least its in a roundabout way supporting development).

    Decay is one of the most hated features and the single highest cause for people I know giving up on the game. We need -something- to mitigate this otherwise its grind trivial content forever until bored, and in a few years' time a death will be setting players back weeks if they continue to advance. The best thing would be to get rid of it entirely, and let the expansion of the skill system into specialist (limited) profiencies, and the softcap/diminishing return systems keep player power in check instead of relying on a fun-killing, progress-killing, demoralizing decay system that isn't even doing its job to slow down the top tier who, as has been pointed out - simply don't die, or die so seldom or grind so hard its a drop in the bucket. Meanwhile we hoard our xp, don't group, dont take risk, don't fully experience the game, don't even goof around anymore because the sting of death is far too high.

    Without some sort of mitigation, then its a matter of every player decides when too much is too much and stops levelling things. And if they don't give up on the game, continue to pool xp. In a year I could walk around with 800m xp I can't spend because it will ramp my decay way up into the 'hell no' range which just seems...stupid.
     
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  12. Hornpipe

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    I know that you don't like decay at all @kaeshiva . I don't know precisely what's your adventurer level, but we are not here to determine who has the bigger thing. I would just say that decay is painful for me too. And in my case, I would say that I'm forcing myself with a psychological handicap because I don't pool experience like almost everyone else, then when I die, I have small beautiful icons showing me the levels I don't have anymore. Personaly, I still don't understand why all this thing is based on real time instead of play time but whatever. We now know that the intent behind this is to assist the soft cap design. It is here to make you pay a tax on your time, in order to prevent a too big gap between you and this guy behind you. It is what it is. Some will certainly argue that it's not perfect. But it is @Chris decision and we are not here to talk about that.

    The potion is a different subject. We are talking about a thing which allow you to pay real money to save time. Like everything else in this game, it's not a problem, as long as people will not abuse this. Now, you know that you will kill the dragon on the hill for the week ? There you go. Pay one COTO, and you will potentialy divide your decay by 14, or even 28 ! Sorry, but with all fairness, that sounds a bit too much. If such thing must exist, at least, make it in an intelligent way. We complain all the time about the group experience thing. Here is the opportunity to do something about that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  13. Pawz

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    What about an option at the Oracle to limit exp to 250k per hr for 4-5 hrs but stop death decay during those 4-5 hrs, it could be useable one per day and would encourage exploring or hunting in new dangerous places for a time. We don't need a potion. Absolutely no PTW and totally optional for times when a person or group wants to hunt in dangerous areas or explore new places? For instance a groups first few times in Krul or another dungeon, they could use this while learning the dungeon.

    By far the worst part of decay is many people stopped taking chances and exploring new places, this could be a perfect fix. It would encourage exploration and limit exp for a time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  14. Hornpipe

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    And yes, but there is probably a way to avoid that. Make it impossible to be casted through walls, reducing range ?
     
  15. kaeshiva

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    It isn't even really about paying 'real money' though - make it cost a coto, which are available nearly everywhere in the game for igg, and which you occasionally get as a drop besides, make it a blessing, make it craftable, make it an oracle hand-out - I'm not really bothered on how we get the effect, but strongly feel that we absolutely need it.

    I think drinking it and then going and trying to kill things you normally can't is kind of the whole point. Otherwise why would you drink it at all? If you take away the usefulness, then there'd be no reason to take the up-front hit. I could see limiting it to rez only, or making it diminishing returns, IF you didn't have to take the up-front hit to begin with, but with such a significant "cost for entry" you'd have to feel like you're getting some mileage out of it or there's no point.
     
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  16. Nikko

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    Amen, sister.
     
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  17. kaeshiva

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    I'd be completely fine with this implementation too..and it removes any "p2w" from the equation. You'd be exempt from decay, but limited on how much exp you could rake in for the duration . Good for trying new things, exploring, testing - the exact things decay is keeping folks from doing now.
     
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  18. Hornpipe

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    Well, we don't have the same definition of usefulness, obviously. Between losing 1/4 of your decay pool and potentialy 7 times your decay pool, there is a big margin of usefulness, in my humble opinion.
     
  19. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    Mine just never seems to hit much of anything, or do much damage - even if I launch it at a large group - maybe I'm too close, or doing something wrong..
     
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  20. Diab Blackbow

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    Don't give up!
     
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