Random Discussion About Chris' Daily Blog

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Chris, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Phoenix007

    Phoenix007 Avatar

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    The difficult is to know if that is a exploit or not. We have this knowledge often only when the developer say that is a exploit.
    In manual I don't find that is limited to one layer (I have checked). I see that is possible to put in building (indicated in User Manual) and often the building have many stage. We just build stage (same as we build a Castle).
    That is very difficult to know what is a exploit (designer of game doesn't want) and what is a feature.
    Example: I see that I can put some buff to others. That is a exploit or a normal feature ? In manual you don't see that you can set some buff to others and that is not indicated in tooltip).

    That is often why people indicate that is a nerf because he don't have knowledge that is not desired by the developer.

    Note: I don't use layer for planting, but I see this from long time, and I thinking that was a feature.
     
  2. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Before the stacking thing was possible people kept telling me farming is one of the best ways to make money and also was apparently keeping cotton prices nailed to the floor before.

    What's different now that a farming bug has come and gone??
     
  3. kaeshiva

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    Farming is decent money for time spent, if you:
    a) have real estate available for doing so
    b) have a schedule that allows you to adhere to the timings, which, if missed, put you in a loss-making situation

    The addition of c) cleverly arrange your planters to overlap seeding/watering/picking target areas to minimize clicks and save time

    made it more profitable for less time spent, and, now c) is being eliminated. So we'll be back in the same position we were in before.

    In my case, I can't deal with B - missing waterings and ending up having the whole crop be a waste of my time where I actually lose money, because I refuse to set an alarm clock to come watering virtual plants, removes all appeal of the agriculture system. Even stacking planters to reduce the time you had to spend actually tending your crops did nothing to address the stupid scheduling issue. If your crops simply had a minimum time interval, and then didn't progress till next state will watered, the system would be a lot more accessible all around - and those people who wanted to minmax by setting alarms would grow 3 crop cycles by the time I grew one, but at least I wouldn't lose money. Of course, this has been suggested and shot down by the people who think the game benefits by having as many tedious/frustrating systems as possible.

    Stacking or not stacking, you may spend less time doing it but you're still limited by A) real estate, always the hard limit.

    The whole realism argument, well...I think we should be able to plant a field, and you know, irrigate it. Evidence shows that irrigation in rudimentary form was a thing in 4500 BC ..well before our current 'tech' era. If we want to use this as an opportunity to make things sensible, then lets make it sensible.
     
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  4. Vladamir Begemot

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    Every one of those things you mentioned I refrained from doing because it was clear they were exploits. If someone is quitting because their boarder line cheat gets removed I'm not going to be shedding any tears. And yes that includes the rediculous stacked farming. I'm a fan of vertical farming in real life but when I saw this tomfoolery I said "That, sir, is the most visible and obvious exploit I have seen to date."
     
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  5. Tiina Onir

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    I've been watching this discussion all morning, rather confused. There's all this discussion about something that I don't see in a blog update from chris. Am I no-longer being notified about them? *checks* Nope, I don't see one...

    <.< >.> O.O are updates now completely invisible for me!?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  6. CatweazleX

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  7. Tiina Onir

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    Ahh, okay. Thanks for the link.

    Frankly, stacking planters has be in the game and so well-known for so long I find it rather surprising that @Chris has just now became aware of it. I also find it rather surprising that something this well-known and left in game this long we're supposed to just guess that it's unintentional and Port just doesn't care enough to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  8. Vladamir Begemot

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    I wouldn't want anyone banned either, but to rage quit over it is ridiculous IMO. It looks dumb, is totally unrealistic, and was clearly not intended. This is coming from a guy who actually does vertical and aquaponics farming. I'm all for it being in game but this whole stacking thing was obviously an exploit from the moment it started.

    Not so with some of the not shaded or stacked parts. A pot on a column, over other pots on the ground, with room to grow for everything, that's fantastic. Go for it.
     
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  9. Kain Darkmoor

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    I'm surprised they decided to fix it out of the blue as well, my guess is they knew about it but didn't think it was an important problem and only recently found examples of someone stacking in a way that was egregiously wrong and finally decided to step in.

    Vertical planters would be an amazing crafted item, with ornate versions in the store though.
     
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  10. Elrond

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    All im saying is if they take something they should also give something even if just a little to sweeten the pot sort of... in this case a good way to go about this would have been ... Hey guys stacking or vertical planting is getting fixed or will no longer be allowed ...but we will also add fertilisers and /or an easier way to pull water ... and not ''we found an exploit with brewery ..people are making profit with it so were shutting it down'..

    The same applies with current farm fix..its not about a planting bed on the roof or 20 planting beds stacked on top of each other...its about people making more profits in gold then they should with a shorter amount of time then intended .... that doesnt mean lets do to farming what we did to the brewing system. Some stacking should be allowed ...for example if the plant has enough room to grow underneath.

    I dont find it ridiculous when players quit ..no matter what theyre reasons are ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  11. Gyzarus

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    Sigh, If this is the intended feature for the game to be able to do "smartly" landscaping the farm, it is one of the best "features" that the Game can offer in the freedom of creativity, IMO this is one of the "features" (Modifying Plant Box position) that really help me to enjoy farming. I don't feel its an exploit, its either you know how to do it or ask some one to do it for you, it also helps to create a better in game economy because not everyone can always Farm for gold, this will also help the existing farmers to double multiply the production and gain more profit from it. However if the Devs are unhappy about this feature, all the green houses will end up as dull looking green house and nothing special about each individual green house, thus this will not make the Game Unique on its own way. I purposely show to everyone in stream on my extreme planter box arrangement, even offering my service to help out on the arrangement, which is a win win situation for both of us, because the time spend on this game is continuous and endless. I will respect whatever the devs want to do with the "features" and whatever result will it be i will go by it, but let my voice be heard and hope the devs to reconsider the that you "are" actually removing one of the best unique "features" from the game that is "useful" and fun to play with. I rest my case .

    o_Oo_OAlphaine Nine Sign Out:cool::cool:[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  12. Dulayne

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    In fairness though and from actually testing out the flipping method that you use, if you really think about it, it is fair that it can be considered an exploit. To be able to do the said flipping of flower beds you have to really push the limits of the stacking.To get that one pixel where the beds can be bent to your will and stack that way only comes from really digging deep and finding the essentially glitch type deals. I saw your method on stream via a friend and it really did give you an unfair advantage. You essentially took a row lot that people were provided to help newbies have a real chance to do some growing and took it to a level what not even the younger/newer players have a realistic chance to do.

    No matter how we explain our actions, to be able to do things like that is just a step too far in my opinion. I put a lot of time into making my greenhouses building relationships with friends and being realistic with my ways of being creative. To hear and see people going out of their way to take advantage of and share something irresponsible is a bit of an insult to everyone.

    If I recall I read somewhere that they made it so that we can stack plants on top of things and not just "ground placement only"? Discussion and open dialogue is fine, and as much as these changes may hurt, it is only fair they want to try to level the playing field. However to say that it is going to outright ruin greenhouses is a little bit premature to me for now. Let's see what actually happens when Chris implements it, and discuss based on what actually happens. I would imagine Chris is keeping an eye on these threads to.

    Remember this is meant to be a sandbox game and to be enjoyed slowly, optimizing is great but in moderation too. I know some of my feelings are newbie like with only 6 months in, as I am sure longer playing members will not be new to changes like these.

    That is just my two cents on this.
     
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  13. Gyzarus

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    @Dulayne no worries Buddy, just sharing my piece of mind, and opinions about the matter, I am not against the changes or what not, i wish everyone could see what I see and understand how i think, but i know everyone is different in their way. This game is like a play dough, which i like to shape to what i like in it, and so far its dealing only 40% of my expectation, even though its 40% trust me its still a lot for me to share out, it just that i have very high expectation of a game, not many has past my 15% mark, that's why i am very very patient with the game, Devs should do what is necessary that fits the situation. And i will stay neutral in many way, because that's the best way to see more things on both side.
     
  14. Dulayne

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    I appreciate that you are sharing your piece of mind and me like many others get what you are suggesting. However it has gone too far when you can essentially take something and make things like vertical stacking happen. (As in the glitch to make them stand on end, rotated by 90 degrees) That clearly was something that could be exploited by anyone who has massive space to play with.

    I know a lot of the changes may seem insignificant but look at the bigger picture. If they do not get on top of things like this then the economy will always be at risk. If 100 farmers turns in to 200+ and each person can get 3-4k a day of gold though these controversial methods then it will just have negative repercussions. Look at the talk going on about cotton, there is little money to make as a new player and this is likely linked to the actions of people who can run to the bank.

    It is better in my opinion that these things are reported instead of sharing. There are a bunch of exploits going on, and one of your friends did the right thing in pointing it out. This is why there is a deeper issue here. A lot of higher level people who have the experience and time in the game are finding ways to devalue items such as artifacts. Unintentional or not, as much as we may or may not like these things, they have to be don the greater good.
     
  15. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    HAAAAY! Y'all I came here to say that too :) Why not offer stacked beds? ;)
     
  16. Dulayne

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    As in a prebuilt system? Yeah that would be sweet. Make it a structure of it's own. Could work!
     
  17. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Lotless farming using dungeon-spawner tech
     
  18. Jigger48

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    on the planting bed thing. don't think its that bad of a thing but if they remove it fine but they really should give greenhouses some kind of benefit aside from just at faster timer. Ie make it so greenhouses can maybe water plants somehow with irrigation or something and also maybe let us put grow shelves up to be a way to stack somewhat with space enough for them to grow etc. A lot of people won't use greenhouse to grow because they can't be on enough to water them at the times they need to with it being as fast as it is.
     
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  19. Mac2

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    Just make a way that is acceptable to the devs that will allow a person to reach the deco limits with plants.
     
  20. Lars vonDrachental

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    Even if you would have to instead buy crops it wouldn’t be odd that you would still have (at least in the long run) the same if not more money in your pocket. Of course you would have to pay for the additionally needed crops but also the price of your crafted goods would rise as rising resource costs should be normally forwarded to crafted products. Of course I do not know what profit margin you calculate but even if it is just 10% is 10% of 100 gold resource investments 10 gold resulting in a price of 110 gold per piece while 10% of 120 gold resource investments is 12 gold resulting in a price of 132 gold per piece. In other words possibly 2 more gold for you per piece just because resources are more expensive...even if I have to admit that it will take more time and is more difficult to raise the prices again. That's because as the prices were going down the ones with too high prices simply didn’t sold anything and recognized that way that their prices are too high but in reverse the ones with the too cheap prices are still selling an thus the idea that they are too cheap might just raise if they are looking at other vendors and so it will take a lot more time till also customers accept higher prices.
    And of course I didn’t wanted to say that you are the source of all evil. I was talking about the entire group of exploit users in general (in this case you seems to be a part of) and that they have some kind of influence by using exploits that is making (at least sometimes) the virtual live of all the not-exploit users more difficult.