Random Discussion About Chris' Daily Blog

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Chris, Apr 5, 2017.

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  1. Magnus Zarwaddim

    Magnus Zarwaddim Avatar

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    Chris discusses in his blog how he looked at the top players and gauged how much XP per hour they were gaining. He then looked at other player bases to determine a middle and low end. The calculation went something like 400k xp * 24 hours * 52 weeks * 7 days = "y" XP and then divided that by the .0025 percentage calculation they use for decay. You can go to the latest entries in his blog to see how he came up with this.
     
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  2. Mugly Wumple

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    In other words the decay I experience is based on averaging the tier of my playstyle - casual, moderate or fiend.
     
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  3. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    No, I am sorry. Maybe I misunderstood. You asked how is Adventure XP per hour calculated. And I thought you were asking how did Chris come up with that 400K / hour number.

    If you were asking how is decay calculated, it's been gone over a few times here. However, the best bet is to review his blog posts (found at the very TOP of this entire thread - page 1) and go to the last few entries. I cannot remember if it was posted today or late last week.

    And it's not based on your playstyle. It's based on level. So 1-40 is a certain percentage of decay (I believe zero percent), 40-80 is another percentage, 80-100 is a normal 100%, and 100-120 or above is a higher rate - in essence the HIGHER your level, the more you will get penalized by decay. Yes, players who were hardcore and got to 100+ quickly are being penalized heavily now. The rest of us who won't get to adventure level 100 anytime soon won't get penalized, but will if we decide to go to level 101 and beyond.
     
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  4. Ravicus Domdred

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    @Chris was also a guest on the Lunch with Laz and Jack. He was there for the duration if you want to hear him answer some questions. To bad he would not answer about hard caps but it is a good listen.
     
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  5. Arlin

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    The new system is based on skill level not adventurer level. Each skill accumulates decay separately already, the change merely sets the amount to increase based on skill level.
     
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  6. Mugly Wumple

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    To quote the same post
    First, I'll be leaving the max accumulation of decay at 24 hours. This means players don't have to worry about taking a week off.
    AND
    Player A, Mr. Hardcore: Plays 10 hours every day! Median XP/hour = 400k
    Player B, Mr Moderate: Plays 4 hours at a time but only 3 days a week. Median XP/hour = 100k
    Player C, Mr Mostly a role player. Hangs out in town a lot but really only adventures once a week for 4 hours. Median XP/hour adventuring = 25k


    As per Chris's first point decay accumulates whether I play or not. The point that I'm trying to clarify is what happens to the player that logs in, dies, spends 3 days crafting then goes out and dies again having already gotten his skills high enough to decay. Is he forever doomed to level out at 40?
     
  7. Magnus Zarwaddim

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    No, that's not how it should work. It's maxed at 24 hours. So if you stop playing for a year, when you come back you are just going to get decay based on the combat XP you gained the last 24 hours of play. I would imagine this means that if you got NO XP that last 24 hours that you wouldn't lose anything, other than what you gain up to the point of death (assuming you don't log in on a mob spawn and die immediately - you'll start to accumulate then lose from that).

    Also, if I am not misunderstanding your point, since you mentioned crafting, I do not believe crafting pooled XP is affected by decay. I thought it was just combat XP.
     
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  8. Mugly Wumple

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    @Magnus Zarwaddim
    Thank you. That was what I wanted to clarify. That my Death Penalty is based on my own earned EXP and not some constant that is an average of all players.
     
  9. Arlin

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    Crafting XP decay currently does not exist, although there have been comments indicating they will implement it at some point, despite that making no sense.

    Chris was talking about only having decay accumulate when you were in an adventure zone, but it appears from the last post he changed his mind about that. (@Chris if you would like to clarify this point I think we would appreciate it).

    Decay maxes at 24 hours, which currently is 0.25% of total XP applied to each skill above 40, and after the changes will be: 0.0 for each skill at 0-40, 0.125% for each skill at 41-80, 0.25% for each skill 81-100, and .5% for each skill at 101+.
     
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  10. Mugly Wumple

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    The definitive answer to my question
    How is the Death Penalty accumulation (up to 24 hrs) determined?
    At 23 min on the above NBNN broadcast Chris states that it is determined by the total skill points a player has spent in the various skill trees. It does not include the EXP in the pool.
     
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  11. Time Lord

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    "I Want to See Super Heroes Grow Here"

    My argument against decay, yet in support of exponential death penalties... (My long held SOTA values) :oops:
    I defend the decay if we need limits which death penalties can't provide, :eek: "But I too, don't know why we need limits" :confused: I truly don't know why we need limiting our characters other than steep death penalties which would rise steeply with the amount of higher skill values we have.
    • If a player was at 100, then -20 would be a good death penalty (increases risk, with no PvP curve to it).
    • If at 200, then -40
    • If at 300, then -100
    • If at 400, then -200
    • If at 500, then -300
    • If at 600, then -500
    • If at 700, then -600
    • If at 800, then -700
    • If at 900, then -800
    • If at 1000, then -1000
    The math may seem steep, yet risk = reward. When you become a monster so shall you reap on both ends.
    (This geos way back to one of my cannibal ideas where the more cannibal you become then the more you needed to eat :p until your inevitable demise of course o_O)

    "If there's no turning back, then it needs to be a variable by zone population"
    I'll accept what comes and if we can't turn back now from the current direction, then the population of any given hunting area (other than PvP main combat non-monster hunting zones)... the population of all other zones should dictate death penalties and rates of decay. With variability this insures that our content is being used, and that players are thus encouraged into other areas, other than the higher content. I see this as necessary because of what we've thus far seen in game population fluctuations. Players seem to be not here, "for some odd reason" and it's either underlying content such as fishing and agriculture missing, or that we have only been encouraging an upward spiral of players into higher hunting content. Once that content has been experienced, the player leaves until more content is made available. What ever is the case, people are not flocking back in the amounts of players we supposedly have. I think it's the lack of worldly content which would keep a player playing even when waiting for new hunting content or added exclusive PvP content such as meaningful battle areas. But the worldly content is missing, fishing and agriculture, which have continued to be what are asked about most within questions from interviewers, because those 2 made the worldly content of UO something to hang around to play with.

    That's my rant on it o_O but I'm far from being a technocrat player :confused: I'm into immersion and worldly things which could keep more players actually playing our game ;)
    Hornpipe is right :D
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  12. Hornpipe

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    Are you trying to make assumptions about my gender ? :D

    Women can understand maths you know :rolleyes:
     
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  13. Time Lord

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    [​IMG]
    :p I truly never thought about it until now:D You've never listed it!
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  14. Calem

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    Of course the current system is punishing casual players more, the math is clear as day:

    Take two players, both with their skills locked at the same levels, both dying about once every 2 hours. Realistically more often, but that doesn't change the decay-related math.

    a) A working casual gets to play maybe 2 hours/evening, dying at least once in the process, scoring themselves full decay in the process, as about a day has passed since the last playsession. That's full decay for 2 hours of playtime.

    b) Fictional Joe Nolife gets to play 8 hours/day since he's living on welfare. He dies maybe 4 times in his playsession, but due to decay not having refilled (since that's linked to realtime), he, in total, only gets the same absolute amount xp decay applied as the casual under a).

    Effectively, the more you can play, the less you are being punished per death? How on god's green earth is that fair? Have to say, the idea of linking it to time spent in adventure zones (latent decay only piling up while you're doing stuff) would be far more elegant.

    The same still goes for obsidian potions, by the way: the more playtime you have, the better a deal you get under the current system.

    It's math, it can't really be argued but can only be fixed, given people willing to do the right things. Still hoping, as otherwise there'd be no point typing this. Thanks.
     
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  15. Beaumaris

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    You feeling this is evidence of the soft cap concept working.

    Instead of hitting max level and being done, now we each have to decide reward vs risk value of further grinding.

    So long as skill power increase rate diminishes beyond GM level it's a real choice.
     
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  16. Wintermute of CoF

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    But if I relieve the siege, kill the boss or do any grinding which involves killing anything at all then I will gain XP, which will level my character, which will increase the amount of decay I'm subject to.

    It's even worse than that if you add in casual c, who can only play weekends but can have a couple of 7 hour sessions. That player is far better off in decay terms than casual a.
     
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  17. Stundorn

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    ROLEPLAY!
    'cause its a ROLEPLAY GAME !!!

    Everybody need to be competetive at some point, because PvP Areas are relevant about lore and Story, sure there is a circumvent for the Love Quest, but most people who are new, wont get that and it shouldnt be neccessary to research the internet to find that optional way.
    and at some point i would gess its not more than a year. If you play a game for a year at a moderate / casual level you should be able to partake in every aspect of the game and be competetive if you want to partake!!!

    I don't know how to balance that, but it is strongly needed if the game want to be a success!!!

    The announced changes to decay sound right to me!
     
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  18. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    To an extent, yes. However, it just means that there is no real reason NOT to have every skill at 80. So rather than a choice of dedicated skill mastery, we have every player as a copy/paste of one another. How does that help the game?

    I hope we get the capstone for each tree that allows you to ignore decay once you master all of its skills. Its the chase bonus that will give players a reason to GM.
     
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  19. Innascual Inch

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    What if the decay system removed a percent of the XP that your character earned over the past day/week/whatever time period? This period could be time spent in game or RL time.

    This "personalized decay system" could be better than the current fixed percentage decay system that effects hardcore and casual players differently. It also means I can more easily change play styles (going from grinding to adventuring to crafting to socializing to whatever) or from group to solo play or if I go from casual to hardcore or vice versa.

    A potential problem I see with this idea is that it encourages people to take breaks from playing to let their decay cooldown reset. Perhaps that is solved if decay effected a percent of the xp you earned the last time you played.

    In any case, a personalized decay system may be better than a fixed one that effects everyone differently.
     
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  20. Stundorn

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    this sounds to me like a personal playstyle relation:
    "The more time spent grinding, the more time a death will cost you. Also, since it only builds up for a max of 1 day, not logging in for several days does not penalize anyone. Same for people going on vacation or being deployed. Being deployed for 6 months and returning means you'll still have exactly 1 day of accumulation."
     
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