Random Discussion About Chris' Daily Blog

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Chris, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    6,169
    Trophy Points:
    153
    LOL, as I said, don't really care about your beliefs of what a mage is and isn't. To me a mage is a being that casts spells. This does not matter either as this is what I believe. What does matter is your selfish attitude that the game should bend to your beliefs, and limit everyone down to the same place you limit yourself to, and screw what everyone else thinks, they don't deserve to have their own beliefs. Now, what is the definition of a mage according to a dictionary?

    Mage - magus.
    Magus - 1a : a member of a hereditary priestly class among the ancient Medes and Persiansb often capitalized : one of the traditionally three wise men from the East paying homage to the infant Jesus
    : magician, sorcerer

    sorcerer -
    : a person who practices
    sorcery : wizard

    wizard -
    1. 1 archaic : a wise man : sage

    2. 2 : one skilled in magic : sorcerer

    3. 3 : a very clever or skillful person computer wizards

      I just can't seem to find anything about clothing, hmmmmmm


     
  2. Tiina Onir

    Tiina Onir Avatar

    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    1,560
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Location:
    Bramble, South Paladis
    Two wands vs a staff is a pretty weak "no true scotsman" argument. Both should be about equal.

    As you lean more toward melee or bows, I think your magic abilities should weaken, to offset the lack of specialization (Jack of all trades, master of none). The reality is, both of you are pointing this out. As someone who uses swords, I should be weaker the two of you in the arcane arts. And I am, most (not all) of my offensive abilities are melee, while my magic is predominately life. Even there, I have a higher fizzle (as is only proper).
     
  3. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    6,169
    Trophy Points:
    153
    But the problem with this comes in at mobs with high resistances. Mages can't do anything about those mobs where as a physical person does not really have this restriction. get rid of that restriction, I would gladly go back to full out mage, like I was before they gave those mobs those resistances.
     
  4. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    10,864
    Likes Received:
    26,407
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Two wands doesn't prevent you from being a mage but the whole mechanic of using two wands is pretty silly I think. I know that you get some bonus from having a hand free, but does the wand really give you all the attunement benefit in your offhand? Why? Wands and staves should act like foci or channels, so if you hold one in your offhand it would not only be ineffective but disrupt the attunement of the wand in your main hand, the way I see it.
     
    curt likes this.
  5. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    10,864
    Likes Received:
    26,407
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Thinking about this, maybe it would make sense to make wands function differently than orbs, rather than them being functionally the same thing, which they seem to be.

    For instance,
    Staves and wands could be seen as foci or channels, which add + Attunement and offhand staff/wand/etc. *would not* be effective and disrupt the attunement of the foci your main hand.
    Orbs can be seen as wells or repositories, which add + % Attunement or x Attunement and an offhand orb *would* be effective but disrupt the attunement of an orb in your other hand.

    So you might use a single-hand wand/staff/etc. or a single-hand orb, but dual-wielding two of the same category would not be effective, while dual-wielding two of different categories would be effective.
     
    Tiina Onir likes this.
  6. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    8,004
    Trophy Points:
    165

    Mac is right though. If you play 12 hours a day and 6 are grinding and 6 are RP vs me who just plays 6 hours a day grinding, I completely agree, we should be equal. But it I grind for 12 hours a day and you RP for 10 and grind for 2, I should be significantly more powerful then you over time.
     
  7. I'm done with this game

    I'm done with this game Avatar

    Messages:
    18,208
    Likes Received:
    35,517
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a conversation that has nothing to do with the changes Chris is making. No one in this thread, certainly not me, has argued that I should be as powerful as someone that has more XP, better weapons, and more player skill. What I said is that there's no reason for someone that wants to look and act like a traditional fantasy mage to be less powerful just because they're wearing robes, using a staff, and not using melee weapons. Furthermore, and to the point of this discussion, they shouldn't have to max out on STR and DEX related crap just so they can compete.

    This is an online roleplaying game. It's not Overwatch where you pick a template and kill whatever moves.

    So let's understand that my position is one based in the reality of what this game is, and mac's position is based on what powergamers want it to be. That's a fact.
     
    Nikko and 2112Starman like this.
  8. Krasavcheg

    Krasavcheg Avatar

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male

    ++++1.. so frustrating the highest level mages cannot kill a fire chicken Phoenix, a high lvl lich, a boss ravensmoor troll, dragons etc.

    My magic should make those things my ***** :)
     
    Vox Aquila and Mac2 like this.
  9. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    4,450
    Likes Received:
    8,306
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Yay to deck swapping being faster!
     
  10. mikedeathdealer

    mikedeathdealer Avatar

    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Hands Up! Less Resist! #MageLivesMatter
    @Chris
     
    Vox Aquila, Thwip, Mac2 and 1 other person like this.
  11. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    8,004
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Agreed 100%. I've seen your build in PvP and you are a lot like me (Earth) and you throw in air (among others). I agree, we should have far more sustainability to do these mobs like other class's. The key is focus management. With all my GM's now in all the various resists, shields and stances I can go up against any mob I have fought now but I simply run out of focus even with significant stacking (and harp of invig running full time).
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  12. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    6,169
    Trophy Points:
    153
    So the reality of the game is we all wear robes, staffs and don't try and reach our limits? And then say we want the game to accommodate what we think it should be, all mages wearing robes and staffs, all warriors wearing plate? I think you are confused, the game IS full of power gamers using the best gear possible, that don't limit themselves to wanting to look the role. I am pretty sure there are a ton more mages wearing dual wands, epic cloth and doing everything they can to be as powerful as they can be, Then there is people willing to sacrifice power for looks. Many are getting the best of both as they use patterns to change the epic cloth into robes and stuff they like. This is not to say role players don't exist, but you are dwarfed by the number of people trying to get as much as they can.

    Now, can you point out where I ask the game to be something it is not? I can point out in a TON of your posts about how you want changes that are not part of the game right now. Show me the fact LOL, give me an example of where I said the game should be something, that it isn't right now.

    I will start pointing out the things you want changed because its what you think. Remember saying you wanted tele and recall scrolls removed? This is something you wanted changed. Remember how many people did not agree with you, but you do not care about their opinions, just want what you want.
    "Here's a suggestion for you to consider, please make all of these buffs reduce max focus for each one that's in use." Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    "I love the ability to make a character that is very close to what a real mage might be like according to traditional fantasy literature, and I'd like that type of build to be viable in pvp as much as anything else." Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    "Regarding robes, I'm trying to lobby Chris to allow them to have more durability than other types of armor. Thus allowing for more enchantments. My theory is that if robes allow for a lot of enchantments" Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    "'m suggesting that if you're in single player mode, the scene should recognize that and help you using NPC guards. Alternatively, the scene could be dumbed down so that a single player without NPC guards could be successful." Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    "Can you please give us the ability to put reagents and other consumables into the world as decorations? Preferably in jars and stacks" Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    "Ideally, I believe a player that is level 70 should be able to kill one of these Cabalists in single player online mode. It's only when we start building in multiplayer that it becomes a real problem. That's why I think the first Cabalist you kill should give you a robe and weapon and boots, and then after that you're back to the random loot table of doom to prevent farming in single player mode." Hmmm just another thing not in game that you want implemented.
    I could go on and on and on and on about the zillion things you want changed that are not part of the game, and THAT IS A FACT.
     
    Fister Magee and 2112Starman like this.
  13. I'm done with this game

    I'm done with this game Avatar

    Messages:
    18,208
    Likes Received:
    35,517
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I think this one sums it up well.

    In the immortal words of Rush - If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

    What you call "limiting" I call roleplaying. Again, this is a ROLEPLAYING game. You're assuming incorrectly that it's a power gaming game. The whole reason we have decay, is because it's not supposed to be an endless power curve where Mac gets to out play everyone one. The whole reason that there's a softcap on skill advancement is so Mac isn't clobbering everyone that doesn't have 12 hours of free time per day to grind the hell out of the game. The entire reason that we are even having this discussion is so Mac isn't the only one playing this game.

    And just so I'm very clear...you're not alone Mac. There are other people that want the game to be just like you do. Themo Lock was one of these people, and there are certainly others in this thread and playing this game right now that just want to max out everything in a casual way and get phat loot. They like the grind, but they love how it makes them better than other people that don't have the time to put into it like they do.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't make for such a great game when you're also trying to support meaningful pvp and roleplaying, which we are. So try to see the middle ground, or don't and let it hit you in the face.
     
  14. 2112Starman

    2112Starman Avatar

    Messages:
    3,621
    Likes Received:
    8,004
    Trophy Points:
    165
    ok lol, I couldn't help it, you quoted Rush... much props to you.

    I think the best argument you can make is that the average gamer will never be where Mac is... ever... it would take me probably 2 more years to reach where he was in the first 3 months after persistence. Its easy for someone with 160 GM's to talk about limits. Mac has the right to be where he is, he put the time in and deserves it but 99% of the players in this game will have an actual "limit" to what they can do in this game and be FAR more restricted with their builds and only be able to pick one period. I picked an and earth mage with blunt and thats all I got, to switch will take me months. I moved all my blunt skills to earth 5 months ago and then 3 months ago switched blunt back up, Im still nowhere near where I was in blunt but Im trying.. Mac can also easily be a 100% Starman clone, a hard core air mage, death mage, archer and swords shield player all by doing nothing but switching gear. Its easy to be at the top =) On the other hand, it honestly may take me 6 months to switch to death right now if I turned it all back up, someone with 160 GM's can almost switch the the flavor of the month on demand.

    But in the end, Mac put the time in and deserves what he has.


    As to if this is what the dev's planned for people, to have people like Mac where they are in the game... who friggen knows... They refuse to say. I personally think that they have planned this and that given 2 years I will probably be as powerful as he is now and if that is the case, I'll be happy.

    Ill never disparage Mac for putting in the time for being where he is at.
     
  15. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    10,864
    Likes Received:
    26,407
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I'm still not sure why the discussion is getting this complicated. I think its simple as saying the issue isn't how players choose to play, its what limits the devs should want to put on players.

    If a game lets you be a tank mage, then its okay to be a tank mage, but that doesn't mean SotA should let players do that easily. Ultimately, the devs have to decide what limits are on the players, and this comes down to a number of factors, including balance, for one, and role-playing for another.
     
  16. I'm done with this game

    I'm done with this game Avatar

    Messages:
    18,208
    Likes Received:
    35,517
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, I'm not trying to disparage anyone for putting time in. What I care about is good game design.

    My argument about the time put into the game by a handful of people is that it's bad for the game as whole when that handful of people has 25% more power than anyone else. It doesn't mean they didn't put the time in, it just means that the game was poorly constructed to allow their time to equate to that much power.

    To fix that, if I were in charge, I'd literally just make decay on any XP over whatever it takes to get to level 100 decrease so rapidly that after one death Mac and Dingle and whoever else would be about 25% less powerful than they are right now. They'd cry about it, I'd say sorry about your luck I'm trying to make a great game here. They might even leave and not play anymore, I'd say I hope you come back some day and continue trying to make a great game. But hey, I'm not in charge.
     
    2112Starman likes this.
  17. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    16,606
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Could you all take your mage/RP discussion to another thread please.
     
  18. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    6,169
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Heh, still got no facts of where I am trying to get some change I want to see eh? Just avoid that all together I see. It is a roleplaying game, I can play whatever role I want, that includes power gaming. You assume the game should be only what you think it should be, I accept others play differently, and they have the right to play the way they want. I help people all the time, all you do is complain and ask for thing to change. You dont want middle ground, you want a game build for you, where no one plays and parties, just wears a staff and robe... all alone.
     
    2112Starman and Fister Magee like this.
  19. Krasavcheg

    Krasavcheg Avatar

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    I take huge offence to this, that is a complete spit into someone's face that has put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into something ... Now if I were in charge I'd simply ban your account so we can stop talking about ridiculous role playing and stupid robes wrecking Chris's thread to discuss actual and meaningful changes he's making. But hey I'm not in charge. :)

    What's your thoughts on the new ballet emote and outfit? That sure goes against roleplaying any sort of warrior or sorcery that's traditional "role playing" :)

    Enough of this BS already, today is patch day and some very key meaningful changes were just done, discuss something important towards those changes.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  20. Lippone

    Lippone Avatar

    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Stans Switzerland
    @Chris
    A few days ago you wrote this report and that there would be a Bludgeon love patch.

    I've never seen anything of that, or noticed. Did you implement that?

    thx for a answer