Random lunging forward interferes with weapon (free/glyph) attack

I have tried to reply to this thread 3 times now and every time I have to delete the text in fear I will be banned for the words I chose.

 

LOL. ... Me too.

 

While finding it a bit exhausting re-positioning with high but irregular frequency to compensate for uncontrolled melee moves, I've tested out some archery lately (almost bringing my character's ranged skills up to match blade skills). What I've found is with a bow in hand, I do much more damage and need to reposition less. Kiting tactics take arguably about the same energy but without taking near as much return fire while still doing more damage than blades, meanwhile if feeling a bit lazy'ish I can stand toe-to-toe with melee foes, launching arrows at closer than point blank range as if they were a melee attack, without the need to re-position (although moving around would keep me from being hit so much). Ironically I can "hold the line" with others in a formation far better with a bow than with say a blade, while dealing more damage overall. I do have to use up arrows and cannot employ a shield, but am really comparing to using a two-hander anyway. I do once in awhile miss "whirling blades" if fighting multiples of foes of lesser levels, but otherwise the bow just seems superior, again *even when used as if it was a melee weapon* and with the additional benefit of not lunging through foes to present my backside while fighting.

That said I do appreciate the work put in on the animations with blades - the lunge *does look good* except that it carries me through foes etc. Also I *was* warned in character creation that ranged combat was more developed than melee, so I'm optimistic that melee will be improved with upcoming releases. Meanwhile it's not just the positioning/lunging through that melee lags behind in though, damage is anemic - relative to archery (again excepting multiple target hitting whirling blades and the like), while most melee glyphs hit no more than one target at a time. Free attack seems much weaker with melee than with archery as well, but again I expect melee to be dressed up nicely in future releases, with good feedback and testing presented for the devs

 

Um... Try a two handed weapon, every autoswing and every glyph hits multiple targets, as long as you can stack them correctly. (which is now very difficult to do).
Bows is great single target DPS, but lags behind melee and Magic in grinding power because of it lacks regular of area effect damage.

Melee was much better in previous releases, it's just this release they gimped our auto attack damage and they gimped our ability to maintain position.
Of course this is a running theme now, Combat was better last release, and better still the release before that, and better still the release before that, all the way back to the introduction of the reticle and elimination of tab targetting and easy heal target selection.

It is almost like they are trying to turn shroud of the avatar into one of those Asian technical combat games where, everything is intentionally technical and difficult, so that only the few can rise the the ranks.

 

.... and this running theme is destroying this game.
EDIT: I say that in the hope that they will yet understand that and reverse these mistakes.

 

Actually my posting regarding melee *was* focused on a two-handed weapon (two-handed sword), just for clarification. While auto/free attack does hit multiple foes, it hits weakly as you pointed out, with single target bow free attack seeming more effective overall for me than with blades. As for glyphs though, for blades at least (haven't tested all other melees), they are definitely *not* hitting multiple foes... Thrust sometimes will hit two (this being with a two-hander, which should hit three), but reposte, double-strike, and rend are never hitting more than one target for me at least (already posted that in bug forums though, in case not an intended change ).

So in my testing, for blades, I'd maintain that other than weak free attack and fairly impressive whirling blades, none of the attacks reliably hit more than one target (and most never do). As for stacking glyphs, that can be done as well with bow or spell as with melee, so I'd not included the mechanic in my evaluation here.

 

So, I tried some magic with staff and it is terrible. How the staff can be bludgeon weapon? and why would mage jump into circle of fighters when he can cast fireballs at distance?

 

Yes double strike and reposte hit multiple targets up to three, but again, you have to stack the mobs, and be in the right position. (e.g. one behind another doesn't work, they've got to be side by side and directly in front with you facing the center one and slightly farther away than autoswing wants to put you to hit three targets. of the two reposte is the harder to get to hit more than one, two is rare, three maybe impossible. However, I can't count the number of times that one double slash has killed 3 targets in this release even with all the broken crap.

I don't know about rend because I never use it after I've unlocked whirling blade, it's a waste of focus.

 

Hmmm I've used both double-strike and reposte plenty of times, but now I'll have to go back and try again to make sure I *never* get more than one target with them; often when I've used them on multiples I've had them all about (lower level critters). I'll need to amend my bug report if it's just difficult to hit multiples rather than impossible, or post on what I'm experiencing in case it's different and not just a failed observation on my part. Thanks for the details, I did find it odd that I can sometimes hit two (but seemingly never three) with thrust but not the others. Back to testing when I've got the chance later today, if I can set my bow aside for awhile

*edited to add I've felt the same with rend, was a struggle getting that one up to 40; also I've not tested coup de grace this release, it seemed unworthy of the glyph spot in previous releases however, just a parlour trick sort of glyph from my experience.

 

I think the reason I find it easier to hit multiples is because I hunt with a partner, who ever has aggro strafes around the mobs to stack them tightly while the other attacks from behind.
Short of it is, mobs are stacked fairly often, and have the least chance to avoid/dodge attacks.

 

I removed the fancy colors, no need for that . Let's also keep on topic as much as possible, thanks!

 

Im thinking the movments need to be refined to only happen when you try to move and attack at the same time.

Currently, your attacks move you when your not holding any directional key. When you move backwards, your attacks move you forward instead of backwards. And moving sideways while attacking seems to make you move forward. Doesnt seem to be an alternative

 

Maybe we're going about this the wrong way. @Scrambler, please propogate this frustrating movement system to all the melee mobs so we'll be on an even playing field.

 

whaaaa.... yall are missing out then, its prolly one of the best DoT in the game right now.
You can combo it with whirling blades to do an AoE DoT that does like 30 dmg per tick.
Its absolutely great for farming multi mobs.
rend also it great against high dex mobs that you may miss a bit, like elves since the DoT can stick while still missing the actual hit.
but yea whirling blades + rend = Buzz saw, which is pretty wicked.

as for the lunging, im still against it and its just bad bad bad.
I mean just try to auto attack then backing away from the mob... you cant.
Push forward a tad and boom im all over the place.
hell even if i dont touch the mouse or keyboard, on auto attack my charatcer moves all over everywhere.
Ive never experienced a combat systsem like this before, even asian mmos dont do this.
if they wanna give us combat movement, like dash slash or jumping over head swing, thats cool, but being auto focused on my target is waaaaay too hand holdly.

I cant even run with my sword out without auto running off to the side to destroy some poor rabbits.... i didnt want to kill you Mr. Rabbit.... im sorry.

 

I think both of our avatars need to go to some anger management seminars.

 

let alone all the reparations pay i have to fork out to their families... rabbits got big families...

 

Other than Attenwood's comments in this thread, has there been any comment by any devs on this issue anywhere on the forum?

 

Whirling Blade + Rend is a combo , buzz saw or something, and it can be effective, in special circumstances, however the best circumstance it would be useful is against the swarm of undead that a lich re-summons, however they are all immune to bleed damage.
Rend is not itself useful and is a complete waste of focus.

Besides what is the point of a dot when they are all going to be dead anway before the second tick..

 

well i certainly wouldnt call that the "best" circumstances, better would be a group of elves, or a boss type mob with 2000+ hp and a high regen.
works fine against single mobs too, as the DoT is rather large.
And rend is good early on and then once its properly leveled, it can do just as much dmg as other skills.
if all you fight are lowbie skeletons, then i guess, yes it is pointless.

 

There are better uses for focus, rend is pointless, even leveled up it is still pointless.
Sure I'll grant you that maybe something besides the normal 5 skull where it actually shines
The only bosses I've solo'd so far in R32 is the troll and fire elemental outside of hilt, the named lich inside of hilt, and the other inside of Etceter, the ferocious red spider in the cave in west ravenswood and just like everything else they are hard until they are easy sauce. (they aren't all easy sauce yet to me, but repeatedly doable)
And I would prefer any other glyph to come up instead of rend in any of those fights.

The only situation I see it could be useful is combo'ed into buzzsaw in a massive raid, choke point wave farming, outside of that It's a waste of focus.