Rant on Travel

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Satan Himself, Feb 6, 2016.

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  1. Greyfox

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    Drop your Mic.
     
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  2. Grave Dragon

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    Yes, and it wont be impossible, just a little extra work... but remember that if you're not overweight or not transporting a high quantity of goods, the methods of travel being implemented will allow you to move across continents in a reasonable amount of time, via all the methods Fionwyn pointed out earlier.
     
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  3. Greyfox

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    Why would I trade with anyone? I would simply have an account with a character logged in at each location with a resource I need. Imposing arbitrary restrictions is similar to DRM on software. DRM only hurts legitimate users while hackers simply remove the DRM. Restrictive travel will only hurt the gamers looking for fun and not tedious, worthless, running about the exact same routes endlessly to buy some berries.

    Power gamers such as myself will have multiple accounts to circumvent the trade restrictions.

    FYI: Steam currently has Shroud on sale at 50% off. I currently have eight accounts. Bring on regional trade restrictions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  4. Jordizzle

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    Got ya, as long as I can get around for recreational purposes rather easily I'm good. Having to wear a large pack and walk slowly or drive a slow tractor in order to trade goods from town to town was one of the things I loved about Archeage when I tried that game. Thanks again!
     
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  5. Grave Dragon

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    No one ever said it would require mindless or tedious travel. We are talking about extra effort to transporthigh quantity goods between regions... and faster less restrictive travel for adventuring and recreational commutes.

    Its going to open up a dynamic where your guild can take a control point to open free trade between regions. That's not tedious, that's an adventure. It will also keep regions separated by control points viable and resident rich, that's not mindless, that's a social haven without the issues of overpopulation, without the issues of abandoned towns and regional lot value fluctuations. That means more towns keep residents, that means the value of goods stay high and aren't diluted by mass quantity farming with instant market flooding possibilities... whats not to like here?
     
  6. Mugly Wumple

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    There will always be outlier individuals who will take any effort to do what they want, be it more accounts or 18/7 grinding. The question is Can you have a resilient system despite some outlier "abuses"? The conversation has eventually come to the conclusion that fast travel and regional economy are not necessarily mutually exclusive. One deals with people moving back and forth, the other deals with goods moving back and forth.

    I'd imagine that the more unfinished the material, the more expensive to transport. It's relatively cheap to move the ancient, jewel encrusted, psychically enhanced broadsword, more expensive to move broadsword blanks, near prohibitively expensive to move raw materials.

    I think it might be possible to accommodate fast travel. I can't say whether it is within the scope of near term development. If not, I think that an attempt at regional economies should take precedent over fast travel.
     
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  7. Greyfox

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    I played this game in EVE Online. I suspect most will despise when large, powerful guilds take control of crucial resources that are a key component to high end crafting and begin charging huge markups for the right to buy said resource.

    I understand your desire. Unfortunately the current limitations of an online game environment and the general nastiness of gamers ruin everything nice. Limitations create opportunities for griefing and exploitation of others. I can give specific examples based upon years of online gaming, including UO.
     
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  8. HoustonDragon

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    Gah, that would really suck if it ended up forcing people to game the system like that :(
     
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  9. redfish

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    Depends entirely on what solution you want.

    It doesn't have to circumvent the trade restrictions. Banks are local. You could argue the problem is unlimited, free, no weight limit, friend-to-friend zoning.
     
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  10. Mugly Wumple

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    This argument undermines the whole idea of resource concentration. The only recourse is the homogeneous distribution of all raw materials. I certainly hope you're assessment is not correct.
     
  11. Tarsilion

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    That such a system promotes griefing and can easily lead to mass exodus with a game dropping from a healthy population to almsot nothing in a few weeks. Such a thing is exactly what created the trammel-fel split and divided the UO sommunity, eventually yielding the market to other games. We do not need this all over again.
     
  12. Grave Dragon

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    I played Eve online as well, but I can tell you from experience it wont be that bad. Taking a control point wont be a task that only a huge guild can accomplish. Two Beran League Bears and I fought bravely at Eastreach gap a few days ago and while there was much... much to much death, we got the control point up to wave 4-5 I want to say. I could be wrong on which wave, but the point is, the three of us did pretty well.

    To add to that, Id point out that those trade restrictions in Eve produced some of the most epic pvp encounters in MMO history. I'm not sure yet if it has been announced if PvP will be enabled in control points, but if it is, oh man, we are in for some epic encounters. Just thinking about guilds like OoV who have taken up arms against PKs and how many more would come out of the woodwork to get involved in something like that would be awesome to say the least.
     
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  13. Grave Dragon

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    This is based on nothing other than your personal speculation. Our dev leaders have 30~ years of game development experience each. They've been through the poo and came out smarter and more experienced on the other side. Lets have some faith guys. Test the features for travel when they release and then provide feedback once you have a chance to test it out.
     
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  14. Greyfox

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    Resources restricted based upon scenarios as follows. PVE control points would be fine, but boring after a few clearings. PVP control points would be incredible fun for a few but ultimately ruin the game.

    So choose boring or game breaking. There are no other options and I am happy to discuss via PM for doubters.

    Be careful what you ask for.

    Archeage had caravans for trade goods. The players set up roadblocks and charged tolls to pass or simply griefed. Ultimately the developers had to ban roadblocks. Sounds fun?
     
  15. redfish

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    @Greyfox,

    But the game won't force people to buy from those guilds no matter what. Ultimately, map travel is fast enough for individuals that it isn't prohibitive -- that's the point of recording the travel time -- and players who just want items just for themselves or their friends can get it done. What we're talking about in those cases are just mass transport for large guilds looking to make a profit. And even in those cases, people can make the extra effort if they want to transport large quantities of goods, its just harder.

    And if guilds can take over control points, that will bring the "meaningful PvP" that everyone in the game wants, since we won't have Open PvP. To keep it with in a consensual PvP framework, guilds could charge a small toll for people to pass through.

    Though IMO, the point isn't just economic, though that's one issue, but different regions of the game feeling different. But its just one concern, too.

    Travel can be an important aspect in quests. For instance, two scenarios where you need travel:
    - You're told in town A to meet someone in town B. By the time you arrive in town B, that person is murdered.
    - You're told to deliver a parcel from town A to town B. On the road there, you're ambushed by bandits who want to steal it from you.

    I don't know how many of those scenarios we can have with fast travel in the game at all. But RG did talk at Kickstarter about contraband quests which would automatically flag you PvP and open you to bounty hunters. Actually travelling the map is important to this. Fast travel is actually a cheat out of contraband quests, and I'm wondering how they plan to handle that.

    Quests can also begin from random encounters: ie, you run into someone on the road who was just robbed -- he asks you to find the item that was robbed from him. You run into a wandering wizard on the road. Skyrim and Witcher have plenty of quests that take place when you're travelling on the road.

    There are more than two unique features, and I'm hoping for more on that track. I love the weather and astronomy system they're putting in. They have to further improve upon that; make regional weather and make animals come out during certain times of the day. I also hope for ways to advertise communicate in game other than the global chat we see in generic MMOs. I also hope for more things down the line, like camping and so on.

    What I hope for this game is to return to real role-playing, back in the sense of the classic Ultimas.

    People should know that a lot of people -- not everyone -- arguing for map travel grew up playing the Ultima games, where traveling was a central part of the gameplay. Reagents were also required, and you died if you didn't have enough food for long enough.
    [​IMG]

    And, no, the games weren't tedious. Now of course, being multiplayer, there are different concerns here, and perhaps even places where you can bend the rules a bit. And there are a few things different about modern gameplay -- ie crafting and so on -- that can be accounted for. But IMO, the more they can bring the MMOs closer to the role-playing experience you found in the classic Ultimas, the better it will be in the long term.

    I'll admit, I've used /zone a decent amount in the pre-release game. I've had to transport a lot of material back to build things in my POT. I've also gone around /zoning to random people to take screenshots. After wipe, a lot of the time pressure to get things done will be gone, though, and I won't feel so much in a rush to get places. So despite the fact that /zone has been useful to me, I won't have problems with it going away.

    I'm hoping for a lot of other tools for people to get things done. We need an in-game map; all of the Ultima games had accessible maps we could use. We need mailboxes to communicate, and noticeboards. We need ways to do bank-to-bank transfers. Eventually, I want to see mounts, pack animals, and setting up camp.

    But all the tools IMO to make these things easier should be role-playing tools. Right now the game is just about grinding runs and social events. That's what fast travel is suited for. But we want the game to be bigger than that. We want it to be a role-playing game in the classic sense.
     
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  16. Greyfox

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    In most issues both of the extremes are wrong. Travel too fast is boring and so too is travel too slow. The current overland map is good. Forcing someone to traverse the same overland map multiple times each play session is bad.

    Locking resources behind player controlled checkpoints can be incredible fun but will ruin the game and cause endless drama.

    Contraband idea I love. Risk versus reward and not a mandatory resource.

    Multiple accounts can't be prevented. Restricting trade has to take multiple accounts into consideration and really no way to technically hinder. So there is no way to restrict trade based upon geography in an online game.

    Teleportation up to weight should be relatively common to enable group events. Both teleport and summon should be an option and relatively cheap.

    Caravans of goods using mules is good so long as no way for other gamers to prevent your travel or restrict access to required resources.

    I trust the developers but sometimes even veterans can be mislead by the community. This is too important of an issue for mistakes. Try to think for the good of the game above own needs.
     
  17. Grave Dragon

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    +1

    You are correct there, I should not have been so general. There are MANY MANY unique features, I had just intended to point out the two specific to the topic at hand. Thank you for pointing that out.
     
  18. Greyfox

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    Star Wars Galaxies (SWG) had extensive fast travel options yet still had the best trade and commerce system in any game ever. Including very well implemented regional trade.

    Oh how I feel for those who never experienced the wonders of SWG crafting and trade.
     
  19. Satan Himself

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    LOL travel. We were talking about TRAVEL ....... :D Not that I have anything new to say at this point.:rolleyes:
     
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  20. Drocis the Devious

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    Regional Economy. You now have to travel with your 8 accounts, congrats.
     
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