Reduce posibilities to grind and exploit like Mode switch!!!

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Stundorn, Mar 11, 2017.

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  1. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    I say you could make the bosses random spawn around the world, not just static locations. Make them take a good while to get to again. This would end up in very immersive gameplay also as no one would know where they would be spawning, and could get quite the surprise. :)
     
  2. Chrystoph Reis

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    Lost me at casual players... MMOs are not casual games... you can not build a game that requires grinding of any type for a casual player. That genre is being HEAVILY catered to by phone games and quick fix web browser games.
     
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  3. Gideon Thrax

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    1. I loath mode switching
    2. I can't solo a boss so I only do this when I'm in a party ... some mode switch, some don't
    3. I'd like all bosses to be on a 3 minute timer - this would be good for solo players and groups

    4. I fricken love this idea - and they kinda do this already with those random encounters - there's a dragon encounter that I've seen a couple times... I always died
     
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  4. Stundorn

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    I think opposite.
    No game has to be grindy or have timesink mechanics.
    Do you want to say i shouldnt play SotA (which isnt a mmo but a selective MP game!)?
    Exactly this elitist opinion i dont like.

    @Ravicus Domdred very good Idea to let bosses spawn random!!!

    @Duke Avery and that you like it too is a sign that nearly all compromises that have to be done about different playstyles can be done!
     
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  5. GrayFog

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    I am an hardcore player and i totally agree with Stundorn...

    The current mode switching, endless farming of just any boss etc. is totally boring and makes the game WAY WAY too easy...

    Ofc. i have farmed bosses already too like this, but i didn't really enjoy it.
    All bosses, all artifacts, just anything special actually doesn't really feel special because of the OPs given reasons...

    Atleast give bosses a 2 or 4 hour respawn timer or so.
    But the current system is just ugly...

    EDIT:
    Ofc. if they would add some serious respawn timers to bosses they should up the droprates quite a bit too. Because currently, as most know, if you really get unlucky, you can kill 20 dragons for example and not find one single thing. But being able to endlessy kill bosses makes all bosses super boring, no matter if they drop something or not. Even more so when bosses are easy to kill anyway (tank & spank, just dps down, no serious tactics required).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  6. GrayFog

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    Did read only the first page of this thread.

    But wow, i so totally agree with Stundorn here!
     
  7. Chrystoph Reis

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    Yes while that is true... any game that requires farming for resources is considered a grind game, mining, forestry, skinning... all of that is grind. = most MMOs
    It's not an elitist opinion it's a statement of fact. That does not equate to CASUAL gaming. Anything that REQUIRES time to put in to do anything, is the gaming definition of grind. The best gear is ALL player-based. Their information has said that from day one. The only way to get the stuff to make it, is to grind.

    The opposite would be find a node click it and it's in your bag... that is casual. However, if it requires leveling skills and actually taking physical time to gather... that equals grind. It's not about just killing monsters equals grind.
     
  8. Stundorn

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    The elitist thing was about that i shouldnt play it because i am casual.

    To answer :
    This means it should be possible to fully play the game, including competetive in MP with 20hrs/ week of playing.
    This is 4hrs a day without the weekend, and thats a lot of time.

    Why are games designed like this is not possible, because some people who do not work or haven't any Family or RL Hobbies are just the only one to satisfy, because this people cry if the complete content in 2 month what normal players need 2 years for?

    Exactly this need to be changed.
    Meaning if good gameplay shouldnt support addictive gameplay, grind timesink mechanics and such.
    It should be possible with moderate time to play to get into all aspects of the game, including competable in pvp.
    Actually this isnt just a thing about patience it's rather impossible.
    And my opinion is they have to cut that, so that everybody can do it.

    If you haven't anything better to do than playing 10 or more hours for 7 days a week then ok, do it, but why should make this you the "better" player or a must to play all aspects of the game?
     
  9. Chrystoph Reis

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    I never said you SHOULDN'T play it. I said "... you can not build a game that requires grinding of any type for a casual player." So before you go throwing insults around at least understand what the person is saying. Reading is fundamental.
     
  10. Stundorn

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    It's not my motherlanguage, sorry i misinterpret that.
     
  11. A'chelata

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    Because that's how life works. If you spend 10 hrs a day with your family, would you not expect to have more fulfilling and in depth rewarding relationships than someone that spends 30 minutes a day with their family?

    I understand the point you are trying to make, but unfortunately, the world doesn't/hasn't/never will work that way. Time Invested = Reward/results no matter what the subject is.
     
  12. Stundorn

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    Yes thats totally right and ok.
    I talk about the measures and that the time and the grind you need to invest to be able to fully enjoy the game is way too high and not modest.
    That's also the issue of no caps in any way and people have xx GM's and more and make PVP not just endcontent but too exclusive for what i think.
    It's ok for me if someone can achieve things in half the time i can or whatever.
    I just dont want to be forced to grind hundreds of hours to be able to play all aspects of the game.
    It's dull in my eyes. Especially the mode switch "tactic". And this all leads to this style to play, what i dont call playing.
     
  13. A'chelata

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    I agree with you, but with a RPG Genre it just isn't possible and still have a game that people are willing to invest years of their lives and months of their wages. If it was built for the casual players to reach the top through casual play, how long would you really play and what would be the depth of your attachment. I go back to your family analogy, the 30 mins a day guy and the 10 hours a day guy, which is more likely to cheat on his wife?

    The good news, is that you can play from casual to extreme and still have fun, if fun is what you are after. Why are you locking yourself in to someone else's definition of what success in the game is?

    Unfortunately, grinding or gaining experience, or whatever you want to call it, is just part of the game, just like helping your kid with homework, taking care of the house and the lawn, fixing the vehicles, loving and being faithful to your wife, is just part of the role. The depth of your reward is based upon time and responsibility invested.

    If I was a game developer, I would let everyone have the ability to set any skill to max level at their desire, and focus on quality content, but that's probably a little too progressive for the audience here.
     
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  14. Ravicus Domdred

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    lets please not get into the dem vs repub debate that will get this thread locked. Take it to a pm or just bite your tongue.
     
  15. Calusari

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    Please dont make this game wait to do something. Go to yutube type Ultima Online dungeons. See maps are full of Dragons, Bosses, lots of creatures = no wait...

    I think many ppl forgot what UO is like and should be.. dont make this game archage copy
     
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  16. Stundorn

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    I too would rather more love to play my role in PVE, PVP and RP than to grind the Char to be able to do that!
    Progress can be fun, atm in SotA i dont find gameplay bad, but if it comes to this massive grind i just cant and dont want do it. So I play along and let it happen by the way.
    I dont like devs create such grind, that leads to gameplay like mode switching and this grind instead of immersion gameplay. That is it what this thread was about.
     
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  17. GrayFog

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    UO???? Even in UO you had to wait....

    Just fyi, UO was not instanced, it was open world.
    Dragons in UO, what was it? Destard? also not instanced btw... there were just normal wyverns and dragons, only the Ancient Dragon in 3rd level was interesting and it was heavily farmed...
    But since UO had no instancing it was impossible for every single guild to farm hundreds of bosses non stop. But in SotA you can...
    And i just talked about pre-trammel btw., where UO actually was still good...

    Whatever, being able to farm bosses 24/7, hundreds per day is the most boring feature you can add to just any MMO...

    I stopped killing bosses a month or so ago because of several reasons that have been mentioned in this thread already.
    It's so boring.... so god damn boring... nothing special at all.
    Everyone can get everything with no serious efford at all, easily...

    Just commit 24 hours of gametime or even less with your guild and you can make the Warlock Chain for example.

    Just commit 24 hours of gametime or less on serious boss farming etc. with your guild and you can have TONS of artifacts and recipes and what not....

    Totally stupid and ultra boring... sorry

    If that's how you guys enjoy playing a game (MMO), basically being able to finish everything within 1 week... then wow... this game will fail so hard as soon it official releases you just won't believe it....
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  18. Stundorn

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    This said , there will be hundreds of passionate grinders flooding the market and controlling PvP Areas.
    I still believe that finding compromises between hardcore and casual gamers are better.
    And yes any moderate Gamer should be able to achieve everything is needed to play all aspects of the game.
    I don't see any need of content exclusively for 24/7 gamers .
    Beeing PvP competable is something that you only can achieve if you massively grind.
    Why ?
    There are a lot of ideas around that, but in the end make it easier to achieve everything in the game.
    As I said , I don't want something to be gifted, I love the long term development, but atm they just drive people to exploit the game (in sense of optimal and not illegal gameplay) like mode switching.

    I think if someone plays moderate he should be able to be competable and ready for high-level Endcontent after playing a year without to grind and repeat and do things like killing a boss 10 times or running a scene multiple times. I remember one player who make the whole round in a pass , killed all mobs in t5 pass in less than 10 Minutes, paused until the whole scene respawns and then doing it again.
    I asked how long will you do this?, he said as long as necessary to gain skills to 100 and GM all relevant skills to then play the game.

    Most People don't like char development , they grind and rush through it and then begin to play the game... maybe if they don't lost the sense of playing while they grinded and rushed to Max Level or let's say high-level Endcontent.

    I still think this concept need to be overlooked and changed.
     
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  19. Lord_Darkmoon

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    MMOs opened the market to a much larger playerbase than games that were released before the genre came up. WoW had more than 10 million players during its prime time. If all of those Players would have been hardcore players then where were they before? So the MMO genre is indeed a genre that introduced many casual players to gaming. What we see now as "casual gamers" is a new generation all together. Social games and mobile games opened the whole gaming market even further to even more people. So basically what you see as hardcore MMO players is a mix between "real" hardcore players and the first casual players who were introduced to gaming due to MMOs.

    Also people here always forget: SotA is not what you might call a traditional MMORPG. It is a Selective Multiplayer RPG with an offline mode - a mix between online RPG and single player RPG. If I want to switch modes then I should be allowed to do that whenever I want. This is the main selling point of the game.
    Aside from a few "hardcore" gamers who needs another run-of-the-mill MMORPG in a market that is oversaturated by MMOs?
    It is a means of balancing. Let's take boss enemies for example. What if I want to attack them alone in offline mode or alone in SPO or just with friends? Should I not be able to defeat it? Why not? Because the MMO elite wants to force me into MMO mode? I decide how I want to play the selective multiplayer game. And people always seem to forget that. The premise of the game is about CHOICE. Choosing the mode I want to play in.
    Therefore I am not ok with MMO only and PvP only zones. Because it takes the choice away and makes the selective multiplayer approach into a joke.
    It is not a question of "does it work"? Why not? Because they should have asked this before starting to work on a Selective Multiplayer game. Now realizing it doesn't work and then removing the choice of how players can play the game and forcing them into modes is cheap and not ok.
    Playing in SP mode I should be able to go wherever I want to go and do whatever I want. When playing in SPO the game should rebalance itself so that I can do everything alone. Would this be an exploit? Yes. But that is the nature of the whole feature. And this should have been clear from the very beginning.
    But ripping me out of my prefered style of play and saying "hey, you can't do this and that alone in the Selective Multiplayer Game" is cheap. It is not ok.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  20. Ravicus Domdred

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    This is the most true statement for me. The MMO crowd has certainly diminished the meaning of the single player online mode. I have pushed for being able to do all content in that mode for a very long time. They could scale it or implement the companion system. However I do understand the need for the pvp areas to be non accessible to modes other than MO Unless they scaled it down to a single player zone and maybe increased the mob spawn to make it difficult. There are options they could do.
     
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