Release 68 Lot Permissions Update

Discussion in 'Developer Depot' started by Lord Subtleton, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I Visited test server today to see how this works... All items were set so none can move them even if they have access to your lot . Theres an option to set as public or not public and the auto set was not public ... so no issues so far..i think.
     
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  2. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Thanks, that's good to know. I mean, it seems the logical way to make it work, given that not everybody can be in game when the release goes live in order to make sure they reset their permissions. (And even if they can, I have a lot of crap on a lot of lots; if somebody with ill intentions was online, I don't know that I could fix everything before some of it was messed with.)
     
  3. CatweazleX

    CatweazleX Avatar

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    Thank you @Lord Subtleton for jumping in, into this thread

    - Containers do not show access settings for Move: {public | kindred}
    - Vendors do not show access settings for Move: {public | kindred}

    I think this are many players as soon the release goes live. There not as many players out there that tests things on QA. And not everyone on the QA test access rights, they test other things (Quests, recipes, etc.)

    -----

    In build 858 it was changed that players with lot access level tenant and below are not able to move things around, and the wording of the entry Move: not public was changed to Move: kindred.
    The name of the player that has placed the item is shown now :)
    The name of the player who last moved an item is shown also.

    It is still not possible to set who is allowed to move things around and who not, item based.

    Also vendors can only be shared with players that are kindred or above. But this also means that everyone who is allowed to add items to the vendors listing has also the right to re-decorate the lot.
    To prevent people to re-decorate the lot one is able to set them tenant, bur that means no vendor can be shared to tenants.

    Also no other item is shareable with tenant level or below. So, if the lot owner want to share things on their lot with tenants, the lot owner has to set them kindred. But that also means, the tenants are able then to re-decorate.

    With the old tenant mode it was possible by telling tenants to switch tenant mode on or off. Also items move-ability was controlled by the item access level. Items with access level co-owner where not move-able by the ones with access level trustee or below.

    In Veritas Sanctuary there a town lot with 4 vendors shared to all citizens, crafting table and some more deco to make it looking good. There are also items placed that are not available any more.
    To share the vendors to citizens, all citizens added as kindred + tenant-mode, because kindred is the lowest level possible to give someone access to a vendor. Tenant-mode is there to allow people to place their own containers with crafting components.
    Currently no citizen is able to re-decorate this lot, since all "static" items are placed as co-owner or co-owner(private).
    With R68 every citizen is able to re-decorate the lot, cause they are kindred. Converting access from kindred + tenant to tenant helps to hinder them to move items around but that also leads to the point the vendors are not shared any more to the citizens.

    There are also two village lots with an inn. Tenants added as kindred + tenant-mode also. Some use the provided containers in their room by setting them private to them-self (that does not change owner ship), other like to place their items in tenant-mode. Anyway no-one wants that the guests of an inn re-decorate the buildings to their liking. Here are no vendors shared, so downgrading them to tenant access level _after the patch_ helps.

    There is another lot with a basement inn, 2 shared vendors and (it was planned) planting beds made available for the guest of the inn. One vendor is shared to all who living in this district. So all players living in this district are added as kindred. The other is shared to access level trustee. The guests of the inn are added as kindred + tenant-mode to allow them to use the vendor. For the planting beds it was thought to place them as kindred and tell the one who want to use it to set it private to them (in the "old" system"). The private flag prevents harvesting planting beds used by others, without changing the actual access level.

    Allowing everyone with kindred and above move things around also allow to move them accidentally around, by not deactivating the deco mode.

    If there is no time to make a more fine grained access system it would help to set the move-ability to the same access level as "Decoration remove or modify" -> (Move: {public | <access level from remove and modify>). This would replicate the old behaviour. It is not an improvement but also not a "downgrade".

    For now i am in need to downgrade every guest/tenant of the inns to guest + tenant in the hope they end as guest after the update. But this also revoke every access to shared vendors. And this is also true after the patch since vendors are not share able with guests or tenants access level. Also containers are not shareable with guest or tenant access level. They either public or kindred and above.

    May i do not understand the goal of all of this. Currently it breaks things we have shared rooms and items to others. If it help i willing to meet one of you at the QA server to explain this, or try to understand your goals.

    -----

    I thing it is easier to allow to set each access level for each event: remove+modify, move, add/take content, allow listing. (and may use). Access levels are: {public | guest | tenant | kindred | trustee | co-owner | private}.

    Well that ends up in a context menu with a lot of entries. May this will shorten the menu:
    (on all items including containers and vendors)

    Decoration make public (set all settings to public, except Decoration Remove or Modify)
    Decoration make shared (set all settings to users lot access level, except Decoration Remove or Modify)
    Decoration make private (set all settings to private, except Decoration Remove or Modify)
    Edit Decorations access settings -> opens a window:
    Code:
                  Take / Modify   Move    Use     Add Listing     Add Content     Take Content
    public
    guest
    tenant
    kindred
    trustee
    co-owner
    
    see also (without the edit: ): https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...8-lot-permissions-update.157285/#post-1246783
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    Cora Cuz'avich and Lace like this.
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    This is going to be a mess, isn't it? I think I'm just going to move all my properties into the Magic Mover until things shake out.
     
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Chatting in-game with @CatweazleX... I've come to the conclusion that this is a good idea made terrible in the execution. As he pointed out, there is no way for a POT owner to deco an area, give Kindred access to residents (so they can use town vendors) and prevent them from moving deco around. The move items permission needs to have Trustee and Co-Owner levels, not just "Kindred and above."
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  6. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

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    ??

    there's no such thing as a town-placeable vendor that can be sold on, whether governor or not. player vendors can only be on lots.
     
  7. CatweazleX

    CatweazleX Avatar

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    The vendors she's speaking about are placed on a lot. The lot is provided by the town owner and made up as a public area for the residents.
     
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  8. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    This is a perfect opportunity to remind @DarkStarr that the ability to add a vendors to a POT would be a great option. Being able to optionally flag them to work like a public vendor (with a time limit on posted items) would be nice too.
     
  9. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Yes, by "town vendors"
    Yes, when I said town vendors I meant vendors placed on a "public" lot by the POT governor and made available to town residents through Kindred access.
     
  10. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

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    Your crystal ball was correct...
     
  11. Lord Andernut

    Lord Andernut Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    I see a lot of people being very worried that someone will move their decorations. Why is everyone so worried about this? They can't take them, and if they move them after being asked to stop, don't let them use your lot. The only reason to move the owner's decorations is to annoy them.
     
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  12. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I have spent many hours decorating houses and lots. Most people are not jerks. Some are. I don't like redoing things.
     
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  13. Cora Cuz'avich

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    And, we all just had to hope there weren't any bugs that allowed others to take thing from our lots, based on a week of QA.
     
  14. Duke Ezekiel Cooper

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    Ditto.

    There are some things, like in a guild hall, when those things are put in a specific location, that's where they need to be and only certain people need access to it.

    Under this new system...
    You get 2 rogues in your guild and then one day you log on and your entire guild hall looks like someone went through and turn the joint into a etch-a-sketch.

    I agree that there are some lots, that you don't really care if everybody in the territory come to it and throw mashed potatoes all over the place.

    But not in a guild hall...
     
  15. Fiero Steele

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    Ouch! don't even want to think about people moving items at the NBM fish market or my Haunted ship lot at Elad's! Some deco has taken hours and hours, also with lighting to get the right light effects.
     
  16. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I have a library in Elad's that I have set up with shelves full of books, and tables of chess and checker games. I'd love to set these to allow public games, but I'm not going to search for them all over the four-story keep.

    I'm still going to ask for special surfaces, like "placemats" for table or special tiles for floors, that allow you to place items within that are then publicly movable but not takeable, and cannot be moved beyond the boundary of the surface. This seems much more usable to set up board games or tavern floors.
     
  17. Sol Stormlin

    Sol Stormlin Avatar

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    You can fix people being able to move items around by setting your permission options to Private. They will no long be able to move anything after that point but will be able to access crafting stations and remote banks.

     
  18. CatweazleX

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    Everyone with kindred access or above can move things around, even private ones. The permission options decide which permission newly placed items will get. Setting 'Decoration: Remove or Modify' to private ensures that only the item owner can take this item to its inventory, but not prevents move item. Setting this to private in the permission option UI ensures that newly placed items can not taken by others.
    Also only the item owner can make this items private.

    Decoration Move is a setting on its own and can only be set to public or kindred (and above), currently.

    (i moved an item as co-owner on a foreign lot that was private and owned by the lot owner. Build 1020. Also Remote Bank Device and Mailbox can only be used when the person is at least guest level to the lot)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  19. Sentinel2

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    Understood. As I was reading this, I was thinking about your museum in NBM. Should someone have permissions, and they were less than virtuous, they could move stuff and cause all manner of chaos.
     
  20. Duke Olahorand

    Duke Olahorand Localization Team

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    If I see, how quick items are accidentially moved if deco mode is on (even from inside a keep to the outside on the lawn) and even can disappear in walls, granularity is a must.
    Make it a lock down mode, if an item should not be movable by anyone without being picked up by the placer or lot owner, and a moveable mode. Even this could have facets like movable only within the room, or within a certain radius, or only on the table ...
     
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