Release of Shroud of the Avatar postponed again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Dec 4, 2016.

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  1. LiquidSky

    LiquidSky Avatar

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    A release date is meaningless if you are already playing the game.
     
  2. Ristra

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    Unless they push back features with that release date change.
     
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  3. meadmoon

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    *sigh*

    EA is only one company in thousands who may or may not employ PMs so your lack of aptitude making a proper connection that might actually serve as a valid counterargument instead of a snarky rebuff to what I said obviously results in the absurd response seen from you above. gg :rolleyes:

    Try again.
     
  4. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    So do you believe they should have done a Kickstarter or not? My response was not snarky... its just not clear to me what you actually want, because one of the main reasons that they did not want to go to EA or a big publisher was so the game wouldn't suffer in quality from arbitrary deadlines.

    Are you really that hardcore about the deadline, or is the game development just not going the way you want ?
     
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  5. Merlota

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    I fear this is at least partially true. There is continual revenue coming in from the game now that people are playing it in persistence. With that there is no urgency to finish before the money runs out.
     
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  6. majoria70

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    It will be updated when we get our next quarterly release document. Things can change day to day and even that comment. If they can't just chat with us on all the various chat platforms with out someone reacting then it is sad. I say things just in passing that I reflect on later and see it a different way all the time. What is happening to our communications with them lately, all the drama. We are lucky they speak to us at all ;) Just saying, and Darkstarr does do a quarterly release document and that info changes all the time. But oh well we carry on in our humanness.;)
    edited
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
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  7. majoria70

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    And comments like this could be some of why they wouldn't want to chat with us at all. We are so fussy sometimes.*sighs*
     
  8. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Why should they get rid of single player mode?
    Not that I disagree. As long as the single player mode cannot stand up against Pillars of Eternity or Tyranny it is pointless and will lead to bad reviews and disappointed single player fans.
     
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  9. majoria70

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    We are definitely making progress, even if what each of us sees as the most important element is not there yet. We cannot go back and undo anything that wasn't done yet or that has changed. As always the only thing we can do is provide the feedback, and take it day by day as we are doing, even when sometimes it is very frustrating to wait and to not see the very thing come in the way we might want, or that all the pieces aren't there yet. Also if they forget a piece, I'm sure we will tell them about it when it all comes down to it.;)
     
  10. majoria70

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    They aren't going to do that and that is not a true statement imo.
     
  11. meadmoon

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    Doesn't matter. If a company tells me they are building a product and would I like to help find its development, I don't care how they manage the money portion. Their responsibility to me is to deliver what was promised. I don't give a s**t how they resource the project. Not my problem.

    Constantly allowing fanboys to speak on their behalf -- "not done yet" "still in development" "still in alpha" blah blah blah -- just erodes confidence. If it were me, I would make damn sure an employee stepped in every time I heard someone speak on their behalf on their own website and provide some real information. Instead, mostly crickets. It shows a serious lack of leadership...another confidence-eroding activity.

    Then why throw EA into the mix? We all know that initialism comes with certain implications with this crowd. You knew that too. Please.

    Then why talk in deadlines at all? You're saying they didn't want arbitrary deadlines but then proceed to throw arbitrary deadlines at their customers? Really?

    Also, there is no such thing as an arbitrary deadline when things are well-planned with well-thought-out goals, scope, and features. Setbacks happen, but they're certainly not arbitrary and easily communicated to investors.

    As for what I want, I want a company I can trust to use the money I provided to follow through on their promises. Most people who spend their hard-earned money on a product want some assurances -- accurate ones.

    I don't care about deadlines. What concerns me is this constant floundering with little or no communication.
     
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  12. meadmoon

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    "Comments like that" didn't create the lack of communication. The lack of communication is what creates "comments like that". :eek:
     
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  13. redfish

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    Its just a reference to what happened when they did work under a major publisher that did set hard deadlines and why they decided to go with Kickstarter this time around.

    That's all.

    By the way, when they did set the schedule, they did say it was only a target and didn't assure people that it would never be set back. So, its not as if they ever promised the schedule would be met with 100% certainty. But I agree with you that the devs should communicate changes to the backers; and I think that should be more of the topic. If the deadline was changed, then I think they should address that to backers right away, but the date I'm not so concerned with.

    And as far as promises go, the promises of what type of game they would deliver when they did Kickstarter matters more than the date, too.
     
  14. majoria70

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    I am not in agreement that they should communicate every single thing to us. These forums quite often go balistic at any changes as it is. We can always provide the feedback at changes and some changes they do to the game will be missing pieces as they have always told us. This way of development is on the new side. It's not perfected or predicted that popularity of a project and feedback from backers can send it in all kinds of directions. The thing is as frustrating and hard as it is to watch this sometimes, I still believe in the long run it will make it a better and richer game overall.
     
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  15. Jens_T

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    If there is any communication to the public for me it is common sense to also visibly make that communication on the KS / Backers' boards and public forum. Word will get around anyway and without an "internal" communication first it will spark discussion in any case.

    Important matters regarding features and deadlines should be communicated in writing (forums / webpage) by an authorized spokesperson and there should be a clear FAQ on updates regarding the development process. Chat and hour long telethons are IMHO not viable means of communication for any professional business. They do not reach a full audience and can be unclear / misleading.
     
  16. majoria70

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    Yes I understand what you are saying but that would be in a game that is being creating the usual way, which this game is not but just imo. Nothing is perfect and we learn as we go. I no way want our team to get so afraid to interact with us, so I don't totally agree with what you are saying. I think we should chill and get back to the ideas and feedback for the game. Always putting the team under a microscope does nothing and imo I'm sure is can be painful. It's like politics in so many ways and causes people to get jaded.
     
  17. meadmoon

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    I don't disagree, but when a core game feature like PvP (for example) "appears" to be ignored while Port's ability to conjure up more and more items to shove in the store without so much of an explanation as to why -- that's going to raise a few eyebrows.

    I also don't buy this, "they can't reallocate resources" garbage that I've heard from players on these forums either. I work for a startup with ~80 employees. I was employee #17. Out of the dozen things I do, eleven are not what I was hired to do. You employ people who can take on roles outside of their comfort zone because when you have to get the job done, you just have to do it. There are customers, investors, not to mention the scrutiny of your industry. It's the agile nature of small companies who need to get off the ground.

    They need to get the base game to a good state and then they can play with the non-essentials. Development on things like POTs seasonal store items can just go into suspended animation until all systems that everyone can use are working.
     
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  18. Womby

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    Pure engineering projects in well established disciplines are usually able to predict the amount of effort required and set accurate deadlines. Things like bridges, skyscrapers, etc. are usually built on time and on budget. In newer disciplines this is not always the case. For example even many well defined software projects will run way over time and budget. Once you start adding things like artistic content, flexible design and response to user input, the last shreds of predictability go out the window and targets are more the result of prior experience and gut feel than any quantitative analysis.

    When it comes to developing games, the traditional model is to create the game in secret over a period of several years, without a published deadline, then announce its existence when the game almost reaches completion. The appearance to the average player is that the game was released on time, when in fact it may have had many delays over years of development that they know nothing about. For example, I don't think Valve have ever created a game that wasn't seriously delayed during development.

    Given the above I'm not the least bit surprised that the release date is being pushed back. Advertising and selling the product before it is stable, feature complete and fun would be a catastrophic error.
     
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  19. Jens_T

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    This is still a business which collected close to $11M and employs a double digit number of professionals. Clear and channelled communication is important for businesses of any size. SotA is *not* a fan project and therefore shouldn't be measured as such.
    My concern is that lack of professionalism (?) in communication harms the development in a way that is not necessary.
     
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  20. Womby

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    You don't ask an artist to write code. You don't ask a coder to create models and levels. That's not garbage. That's fact.
     
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