Resistancies and PVP, please help and explain!

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Stundorn, Oct 5, 2017.

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  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    Hejsan,

    Its time for me to ask this, how does this work exactly?
    It's no problem to me if players have a lot of options aka skillets available, so they can act as fire or watermage for example.
    What annoys me is that iirc the 10 highest skills in a tree are important for Atunement and Atunement pushes Resistance for that school of magic.
    So if i'm specializing and don't have a wide spread skillset, I not only lack in options to actively fight (back) , but also in beeing resistant for schools i don't learn.
    Is this right?
    I always refuse to skill fire for example only to be more resistant against fire.
    Anyone has some info for me how this works actually and if they plan to change something or is it WIP but not prioritized???

    Thanks, and please no PvP bashing or less constructive posts.
    I'm interested in beeing able to fight aggressors back when i'm exploring Shardfalls or Ruins, but i will stick to my specializations and won't skill fire for example.

    Wouldn't it be better if resistancies are coming from armor types and lets say light is always better against magic and plate best against physical damage etc...
    ???
     
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  2. Stundorn

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    No one? Push!

    Eh, it's serious, I don't want to complain or bash someone :p
     
  3. Jezebel Caerndow

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    I just think one skill in each tree for resistances, no need to level the entire tree for attunement for resistances. I feel for people who want to specialize, especially in a weapon.
     
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  4. Stundorn

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    The highest skill in a tree?
    So let's say I train flamefist to 20, then highly flammable to 40 and then fire proof to 80 , I then would have the same fire resistance as someone who has the whole tree skilled , but no skill higher than 80?

    That would be acceptable.

    And for death only death atunement?
     
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  5. Jezebel Caerndow

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    No, I think a passive skill, just like fireproof. It can't give too much though, the res pots I think are already overboard. Tourneys already had to restrict those pots because 2 mages could not kill each other with them on.
     
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  6. eli

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    I wish each resistance was a castable buff with a 30-60s duration.

    So if you're in pvp, you can intelligently react to the spells your opponent is casting, he can react to your resistance buff, etc. That would be way more fun gameplay.

    Plus it'd be really easy to implement, just add a spell per tree. It could even be on top of the existing system without too much trouble.

    Chaos should also have a spell reflect.
     
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  7. Preachyr

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    This is correct. Specializing your character hurts your combat ability overall.
     
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  8. GreyMouser Skye

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    I currently do not think they work as intended, but you need sorcery wards on your gear. Gems for fire resistance with no skills in fire. I'll give you a whole set for very cheap if you are interested. I think the idea is right but the math is wrong. Maybe in PVP it works better (or worse!). Up for testing?
     
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  9. Numa

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    I didn't bother going into the fire tree either but sorcery wards on my bow, chest piece and ring are great against fire casting mobs. The challenge is that some of the spellcaster mobs also use sun/death spells so balancing your outfit isn't easy.
     
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  10. Tsumo2

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    Resistance is a reward of the arduous task of learning a school of magic.
     
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  11. MrBlight

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    Pretty much why most people leveld up all trees.

    So when your water mage specialist is pushing 139 to 140...
    You can use the same exp to get all of death up and the massivr amoint of resistance that comes with it.

    Exactly why all tanks and fighters r required to level all magic. ( for best bang for buck)
     
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  12. Belgtor

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    Agree 100% with above.

    while I hate having to level skills I don't use or even want it's needed to pvp. Other wise a 0 magic skilled player would be one-three shot by low tier spells ect. stone arrow/ fist. If both players are say leven 90.
    (Just my opinion from what I have seen at pvp events)
     
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  13. MrBlight

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    Not just opinion its simple fact lol.

    Theres a reason the top pvpers were running skills to 99 for resistances ( back when you couldnt hide gm)
    But why would u spend 40million for 2% more dmg on your water spell.. insteas of getting 40% base resistance increase in fire, sun, death and moon for the same amount of exp?

    Its why you so often saw people spamming spells they wouls never use agian.

    Dumb setup and makes a lot of charactera pretty identical.

    Yes i unserstand peopel will argue specializing that 40m for that 2% dmg boost is amazing.. but id argue 95% of players will at one point or another backtrack for those resistances.

    All in all its a system i dont like..
    @Stundorn yes you are gimping yourself by not at least taking the bases up. PvP aside, this effects pve as well.
     
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  14. Stundorn

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    Dislike it and therefore you wont see me PvP although i would like to partake from a RPvP view.
    But they force me to skill things i not only dislike to use, but also are immersionbreaking to me if my character has to use them.

    I want diametral effects back.
    The schools schould lock you out from diametral schools.
    1 point in life, so no death anymore for you.
    1 point in fire, so no water anymore for you.
    Choose wise.
     
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  15. Sakarisei

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    Honestly I agree with @Stundorn in terms of non-magic users must have at least one skill for magic resistance regardless of the type since spending 23m-30m of exp for each magic school with the only reason of resisting magic is completely ridiculous. Yes, It's very annoying doing it. If there were at least a Magic Resist Skill in Tactics or Focus, maybe the situation were completely different...
     
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  16. MrBlight

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    Yup.
    Ive talked about it many times but honestly, seperating it at this point is a pretty massive comabat balance overhaul, and i dont thijk its realistic to try and change at this point.

    If there was limited skill points their idea might be neat, but essentially everyone will be demi gods... and i think most peoples skill trees will look near identical in end.. minus i ll have 20 points in to my *specialty * that might differ frpm you..
     
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  17. Stundorn

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    Agree.
    I also sugested every point in physical combat skills should affect all magic and vice versa.
    I would like to have a way more diverse system where people more often depend on others to do what ever they want to do.
    Only for MP, the SP offline can be like it is. Build the ultimate Avatar with power like a God.
    But for MP, sure players should be able to solo things, but then please specialise and maybe one is a good deerhunter, but bad against undead. Another is a perfekt Undead Killer, but bad at killing Human / Bandits. Another is a good at fighting x but bad at y. Same for crafting.
    Sorry to repeat and i know it wont happen, but the MP game would profit from hard caps and tree restrictions like choose 10 trees in total, including crafting.
    Choose one Armor, one Weapon, some magic or choose more weapon but less magic or choose more crafting and less combat...
    Dependencies for MP.
    Let people do things alone, but dont let people be able to do everything alone.
    Else there is no cause to interact beside socializing.
    I want to make a contribution and to be important in a group.

    I understand the lone Wolf thing, but honestly then play the offline game.

    MP is for MP and not for SP lone wolf types imho.
     
  18. Stundorn

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    yup i got it thats it is build like that, but for MP puroses it is bad imho.
    I try to explain in short.
    If you think of MMO or MP i allways thought that this is for interaction within players.
    So why interact if everyone is self sufficient?
    Ok socializing, i'm a roleplayer so great, but i like to RPvP for example and i like to roleplay with gamemechanics.
    If we have a survival of the fittest system what you like so much, then spent time is key.
    If one likes this because it fits his aproach, then he locks out players who dont have that much time.
    You said elsewhere you hate communism. I dont like it too, but i like solidarity and if the strong allways feel responsible for the more weak.
    Survival of the fittest is not only not caring for the weaker (with less time) it's having fun based on their weakness.
    That i find is weak. I dislike people who drive the measures and say: look i worked so hard i have the right to be rewarded and - now the important part - dont care for any balance, the stronger the better, the wieder the gap, the stronger i am (and the more i lock other people out of content, pvp for example, because they cannot work as much as i can. Or you may come up with "serious playstyles" and make it less a game and more and more a competetion what carrys over to RL.

    I allways thought that a world full of hereoes and dragonslayers is somewhat lame.
    We dont have dependencies, its just a matter of time and to be ready to play or work the limitless system.
    Some selfrestrict. Why do they do that? Because they want dependecies and real MP purposes.
    Why i should group up with someone to kill a dragon if he or i can kill the dragon solo?
    I'm not working on RPG Elements, i want to play a Roleplaygame.
    I've learned in life its never too late, but sure i dont have any hope or would make a drama of it and quit playing.
    I long found other aspects of the game and made my compromises, but sure it could be undone, they need not rework the system, they just need to make it clear to everybody to read the skills first before they choose, people will build "wrong" builds and fail, but you can already unlearn and reskill!
    Think of gathering and crafting too.
    Wouldnt it be cool for MP purposes to have Crafters depend on Harvesters and Harvesters depend on Buyers/ Crafters.
    Maybe one can gather and craft, maybe only one sort of ressource and production, but then has less abilities in fighting and so he also depends on fighters to help him surviving in the mines. Incentive to groupplay, or?
    Others refuse crafting, because they want strong fighters or mages and dont "waste" skillpoints into crafting.
    You can build a lot of 10 trees.
    You may come up with then people just play alts and mules and do it still all alone, yes thats true, but for PvP this wont help.
    And if they said PVP is vital for the game and such, they should be interested in having as many as possible players partake.
    Instead its an exclusive thing for hardcore players.
    And dont argue with some made it in 3 Month to Level 85+ and beat other highlevels with skill in between 80 to 100 while the oppoinent has XXX GM and already some skills at 120.
    Sure its possible, but seriusly that is working RPG Elements and not playing a RPG.
    Most people do it this way, let them do it, i just say its lame as hell imho and i made already my compromise.
    All people i talked to dont want to play the game for this reason and 2nd because of the prices for housing. And that are a lot and not only Roleplayers, but also PvPers, but i dont know people who can play 10+ hours a day and everyday. I only know people who work and have family.
    These are locked out completely, because for a decade or two all FFA Sandbox PVP Games with full loot were games where it is about spent time "working" on things and not playing a RPG.
    Also the most PvPers take it so serious, its barely fun, they often say , death is meaningless, its all about fun, but my expereince is another.
    Join all these TS or VoiP ingame Channels and hear the people "just having fun" while screaming and ranting and insulting others.

    This creates an elitist club of those who play the most - no problem. Have fun in tournaments and rarely see people in PVP Zones having true sandbox PvP. Wont happen here if things wont change. No chance. The audience who has the time and is willing to only grind and rush to have a competetive char will be allways very small.

    If the system would be well balanced and spent time and gear and all that count less than playerskill im in and vote for full loot.
    But this is only going to be the same crap than in the last 20 years of PvP for addicted players, who do nothing else than "seriously work" instead of playing RPG.

    This may sound somewhat accusing or provoking - it's less meant to be that, but i have problems to say it more accurate in english.
    And to be clear. i agree that FFA Sandbox PvP has not to be fair or arena style or whatever, but if you relate it that much on spent time
    and make it not easy to everyone you will loose participants what is way more important than this mentioned "texture" you will loose.
    This "texture" imho is only the elitist club - like if you want to golf here you have to pay 2000/ month.
    If you dont have it, you just didnt work hard enough and you do not earn to have this reward to play golf with us.

    Mac once said in another thread that is is unfair if people can buy out others from lots with more money.
    So P2W lets say. dont know if you know the thread with the suggestion that players could outbid others on lots.
    I said its the same with spent time. People who have a lot of time and spent it, lock others out if they allways drive the measures.
    Time and money need to be regulated and balanced to have the biggest audience possible for all aspects of the game.

    It would encourage people to work together, what imho is the purpose of MP. But this game is in the first time designed to be a SP Game.
    So for me - i'm only using MP for RP and socializing, somtimes i group, but thats most of the time boring and not challenging, because we are all too strong.

    vote for 10 times increased Death Decay, what also take pool into the math - that would be a good balancing nerf! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  19. Numa

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    re: wespon & magic specialisation - I would rather go for some top tier skillls that only people who specialize in that tree can get. The Life tree already has a variation on this with it's special healing bonus if you haven't performed an attack move for X minutes.

    Why not extend this to, for example, polearms so that you get an extra damage bonus if you haven't switched to another melee weapon for a duration? Similar idea fot magic trees.
     
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  20. MrBlight

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    Well..
    Long spiel to ignore the fact that hard caps create rock paper scisors pvp.. where 1 build wont win everything... and that skill is actually built in.
    Unlkke now where evrryone has 90% the same skills and 10% being their * specialty.. *..

    Not sure what games youvr ever played where people are same classes with dif builds of said class.. but skill def shows in most those games..
    Id arguw this limitless crap makes the weakest pvp in any game so far.. and have the nmbers to prove it.

    The current sota pvp system is awful.. and is more dependant on who can grind pve the most... its not skill based.. and its not class specialty based. Its literally time vs time in most cases.
    The fact someone adv level 80 can beat someone adv level 100.. doesnt make the 80 good.. it makes the 100 bad. As any other decent adv lvl 100 will have roughly same strengths aa you with significantly less of the same weaknesses.
    And any uniqueness in builds only degradez the highee you go. Your 1m in death becomes less n less impressive wh3n in deciding 40m to go from 139 to 140.. or 0 to 100 jn all rhe death trees...
    Then when we tallen 145 to 146.. you might be 145 death.. but im probly 125 to 130 due to my last 1 point was worth 30 in death instead of 1 poinr in fire or blades.. etc etc..

    Side note..the attunement to resistancez r wrong i think.. to late to remember exact.. but its higher...

    And ya zerging.. 20 v2.. or 20 v10.. dif with hard caps and specialties means those grouos alrnt just 20 identical characters.. the geoup actually has weakneases n strengths.
    Thus game doesnt cater to pvp group dynamics.
    Especially large scale.

    Ignoring most zones end and make new instsncd at like 10 people.
     
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