[Responded] Please add Oracle dialogue for all eight virtues (Spoilers)

For the Central Brittany Oracle, it would be good to be able to check on all eight virtues since this determines which pages you get in the book from the Confluence.

This would work the same as Hawkwind from Ultima IV.

 

7 of the 8 virtues are derived from various combinations of Truth, Love and Courage.

The 8th is based on another value entirely which does not affect reward or dialog in any way, only a page in the prophecy.

Spoiler

Humilty, which has no basis in the other virtues

Spoiler

Having a level far higher than required to clear the main quest will give you a negative Humility rating.

 

OH! Spoiler #2, Well Played... LOL

 

Spoiler

so a quest reset, even a virtue reset, won't ever help. the only reason my level is this high when i complete it is because the quest wasn't there to complete before now. the only way to get a positive rating for it would be to restart. that seems like a punishment for having stuck through the development process.

 

Yeah that's the one that I did not get. Really does not make sense considering how difficult some of the areas are to complete such as Malice and the Colossus areas.

 

I'm a little disappointed about tying the color of the shroud to the virtue scores. As it is, I would have to get negative virtues in order to get a black cloak (which I would like much more than a white one).

 

And it also means those who reset the quest lines after a year+ of testing and getting to lv 100+ adventure will take a massive hit on their stats just because existing before quests are completeable. Don't think this is a good idea. :/

 

I wonder what adventure level is high enough to finish the difficult areas and get the humility page?

Maybe level 70 since the Grannus Colossus seems to have the hardest mobs of all the quest zones.

They were yellow to me at Level 84.

 

Spoiler

I set the level for the Humility check as 74 - it's well past when level/XP passes the point of diminishing returns.

This is basically an Easter Egg. There is LITERALLY NO EFFECT from this except for the evaluation of your actions contained in one page in a book you recieve. If you think that is "punishment" perhaps the page's text is more apt than you think....

 

Hmm first of all, thanks for taking some time to participate here Lum, always appreciate that.

That said, let me give share a feedback here of what was my experience with this:

- I think that virtues should be measured differently and appart of each other. Like, you said they are a mix of the 3 main... Sure I don't understand fully how this is working ingame but i also realize this opens the path to inaccuracy by a huge step.

For instance, you can have Truth virtue high, which can make you be judged as uncompassionate, because you may hurt others feelings by telling the truth. But what if you did not? What if your virtue comes just for completing truth quests and no other at all?

What about being compassionate and a liar... but all you did is to help every beggar you found on your way?

Many virtues I just had no clue of "how did I get there"... overall the game offers no hints, the oracle is silent, you are just playing in the dark for most of your lifespan and quest development.

Aside from the path of love, all other paths are a huge ??? (Question mark) And I don't feel challenged in any of the main steps, truth quest being the main straightforward "ask-about-bonesteel" everywhere and don't feel it almost a path until you reach artifice and although have little to none possibilities of interaction, discover the purpose of the city. How does that test my virtues? I can't steal from treasure room, I cant participate on the luxurious acts there and I also cannot try to convince people that those thing are just wrong. If you step on that trap and unwilling smash the kids behind the bar you also lose virtue (at least the satyr hints you about it).... virtue? How, if it's a trap and I didn't even realize it?


And the one about humility is kind of immersion breaking, because you are judged proud for solving the black arrow murderer being high level but it just don't make any sense. To the contrary: solving low level quest being high level denotes you care about people, and a king helping a kid have her cat back from a tree? Well, this is the most humble king ever.

Notice I am not talking about being "punished" alone, I am talking about things that makes more sense in real life dilemma.... the solutions in the current game state seems too "artificial" as of now.

What I expect are plenty of quests and side quests to enrich this... plenty of moral dilemmas and choices, not just a mechanical calculation of give a bit of this, take a bit of that... like "every compassionate guy is a liar" or "every strong guy is dishonored"... the kids behind the bar in Artifice? Well, instead of a trap, put 2 levers: one kills them all and open a shortcut, and a chest that gives you 500 gold... other saves them but trap you in that illusion labyrinth with spiders, have you choose which one to press, face the real consequences of your actions. Dilemma. Make the avatar lead the faun rebellion, not just being there and watching.

Make the avatar change the affairs between Grannus children, both uniting them, or serving justice, or just breaking them appart even further... why let the oldest son die to a elite kobold when you can stand for him and fight instead?

Why being a mere spectator about Samael and his wife when you can sacrifice yourself (by killing yourself in a pool of sacrifice) to summon his dead wife to talk to him, knowing you will come back but losing experience... or to make something more significant? Or just ignore his sorrow and kill him to free the titan, thus making you cruel.

Sure being compassionate by lying to someone to spare his feelings may give you a mild hit on truth virtue, but helping beggars, should not give you the same truth hit.

So I guess the system needs to be very much improved, cause you will just have your players ending up like me in a big "what? This doesn't make any sense" in the end.


Anyway all I write here is from a passionate player's heart, and I do really expect the final product will be very different from this version.

Maybe delay that reset further?

I know you are capable of. I've read the Sword of Midras (aka blade of the avatar), the books, anthologies and Iolo 's book full (having translator access to assets) and the dept of the stories there are not being reflected ingame.

Not as of today. I really hope you will make them until live.

And as I said, please don't take these comments as hating or anything.. it is just a feedback, I want this RPG to be the best to play in years, but for that you may want to revisit the quests a bit more.

Thanks.

 

Heh, well vanity isn't a virtue, either

 

Spoiler --> It's not really punishment, although players won't necessarily feel its a fair judgment :> Whether that's an important consideration, I don't know...

 

no, it's your virtue system. every other virtue is something we can strive to improve if it's something we think is important. if it can't be strived for, it isn't a virtue. i'm not concerned with the in-game effect. i'm concerned with you basically telling people they're permanently damned.

 

there were a few that were orange to me near the colossus itself, i'm 91 and was wearing a necklace of civility, so orange at 96.

 

Oh, come on. Really?

 

We very much plan to! But we're not going to restructure the virtue system around individually measured virtues - that's from Lord British and if you disagree with how he evaluated them take it up with him. I just helped made it work.

 

@Alley Oop

Well, there is an argument, not only in the game but in real life, that you can't really better yourself at humility by trying to be humble.. that you can only be humbled from outside.

But I can see how some players might not find it a fair judgment; say, if they got to such a high level by helping other people and postponing the quests in the process. Whatever the Oracle's judgment is worth (If anything).

I'm wondering... does your level go down if you forcibly unlearn skills? Or does XP pool rather than skill progress create your adv. level?

 

Probably the wizards they are pretty tough.

 

but within the context of the game, my character cannot be humbled from outside. she cannot be humbled AT ALL. it's like spiritually rejecting people over 6 feet. they were shorter once, but they didn't get that way because they're proud.

 

At least I know the threshold for trying again in offline mode and proving that it can be done.