Review: Main story without "the grind"? *SPOILERS*

Over the past few days I took a relatively new character through the main storyline offline. Before I begin there's a few things you should understand.

1: For awhile I had let this character sit collecting daily XP. So by the time they completed the first outskirts they were already in the lower 20s. However, those first 20 levels don't mean much in the grand scheme of things but it does mean an offset as the character isn't completely new.

2: Archer. This was all done more or less exclusively with a bow. No GM'd skills but ranged skill is fairly respectable with most of the active skills at 70 and Ranged I think in the 80s?

3: Starter gear ONLY. I didn't buy anything and didn't craft anything. (Least not anything useable in a fight).

4: Leather armor..

5: And this a BIG caveat. I actually knew what I was doing! Which is a huge advantage.

6: oh and no shrine of food buffs! and only low level healing.

All things considered... my offline character for this is still pretty squishy but does respectable damage for their level.

For awhile now I've been concerned about the level of difficulty of key parts of the main storyline. Specifically, the Grannus Colossus as the main one, the Kobold Expedition Camp and finally now Hilt. Malice was an issue early on but has become quite doable.

It seemed for a long time you had to be at least in your 60s with good skills.. or even 70+ in level to finish the main storyline without help, but the main storyline and all of its quests do not provide you enough XP to even reach 50.. in fact, as I'm writing this my offline character has only achieved level 48 despite having started this little journey already in their 20s.

So I did all of the outskirts first. Quite a few levels still to be had in those (I had done the Solace Bridge outskirts before this) and part way through the Path of Love. Honestly I don't remember how much of it before moving on. I usually did Truth first, then Courage and Love and Love oddly has the most fighting of any of the paths which is still the case it seems... but I did things a little out of order this time because of the Kobold Camp in the Path of Courage. I'm pretty sure though I did Truth before doing the Shuttered Eye.

The Path of Truth provides the first challenge for me as we now have to enter the Crag Mines. This was a challenge as the you have to go through a tier 5 zone to get to that mine. Most new players won't know where the entrance is and should expect to die several times. I expect this part to be quite frustrating for many.

Once in the Crag Mines you have those blasted archers. Archers, do not belong in mines dang it! But I digress. Much to my amazement, I managed to get the job done even though I did die once on the way in. Though if I didn't know where I was going I'm sure I would've died a few more times.

Path of Truth completed.. moved on to the Path of Love.. not a problem (thanks largely to Samael). On to the Path of Courage and the kobold camp.

The big issue with trying to finish the kobold camp "peacefully" is the consecutive opponents in the fighting pit. You just have no time to rest. The only reason I managed to conserve my focus is because I knew what was coming and it would be a long fight. By the time I got to the actual "champion" I didn't stand much of a chance. Died once.. rezzed.. came back and killed that damn monkey without too much effort.

I would note here that the first time I did this part I was mid to high 60s and still died once.. mainly for the same reason.. low focus.

Path of Courage done. On to the Path of the Oracle.. by this time I'm level 46... and I've died twice but otherwise managed to get through everything.

So, I already know just about everything along the Path of the Oracle can be done in the 40s. Online I use alternate routes to collect all the pages.. this time I did a combo of going through ruins and underground.. but again.. I knew what I was doing. Alternate routes are far from apparent still.

Before I get to the Grannus Colossus.. I just have to say.. Boreas Colossus.. what the hell is a ghost corpion even doing there? Seriously??? What purpose does it even serve? Who's going to solo the blasted thing???

Ok.. Grannus. I had heard it's possible to get through the first camp with clever use of stealth, dash and sprinting. Well after the 3rd failed attempt at this I decided.. what the hell, let's see how I do. With some tactical use of terrain (including manipulating path finding to lose opponents) and judicious use of disabling shot.. I managed to get to the final wave.. where I died a horrible flaming death! But I came back, managed to snipe the wizards until only the cultist remained and....actually killed him. Stunned... I made it through the first camp only dying once.. I moved on.

The second camp is pretty easy to just run through so now I await for a quest friendly version of Hilt and the obsidian forge to actually finish the main storyline.

Again, I'm now level 48. Starter gear only. No shrine or food buffs. Light armor.. very squishy.. and I somehow managed to make it through and most importantly.. no actual grinding levels! Yes I did have that 20 level head start but by the time I reached the end that meant really very little. The main storyline provides enough XP to reach about level 43 or 44 I think?

Bottom line.. it IS possible to get through it all without grinding BUT.. more can and should be done to give players adequate information about what they're heading into and alternate routes to the vaults.

Also, decent companions should help quite a bit.. when they're finally in.

 

Great review Bowen! Definitely points out the current issues with offline play and play for new avatars! I laughed when you discuss the ghost corpion because you are right, for offline play it is a bit overkill.

I have found that using Samael as a meat shield helps a lot, but he can only be summoned in limited areas. It would be great if he could be used like Fiona. Hopefully more characters will be coming online soon.

Looking forward to see how you handle the Obsidian Forge offline. That's difficult with a group let alone solo offline!

 

Great write-up @Bowen Bloodgood !! One note, didn't they say, awhile back, that idea was to move between the different paths which would help one finish the game with little to no grind? I think the difficult part to that is having everything 'jumbled" up in one's knowledge book. I would have they come up with a way, tab perhaps, that separates the quest lines so it would be easier to see where you left off. Just some thoughts. I have no problem with overpowered monsters in sections as long as you can figure out how to get past them. Might give one a reason to come back to that zone after finishing the E1 paths and awaiting E2.

Damn I missed the the R49 Postmortem yesterday, first time in a long time!

 

Nice! That's actually quite promising then. I love the tabbed quest journal idea! Does anyone know when companions are slated to be added? I'd imagine some time before release would be optimal.

How long did it take you roughly @Bowen Bloodgood? I'd love to see something like 40+ hours for main quest and maybe 65+ with extras.

 

R52, per Q1 2018 post

 

Apparently there are 2 companions in the game now that will be in for Launch. That's probably all that will be available, as they have not announced any dates as to when they plan to add more (other than "eventually")

 

And don't forget about the companions who should be in offline mode until launch

ACTUAL INFORMATION from Darkstarr, 14. December 2017:
... here is the broad overview of the launch content:
Offline Mode with special features and content
Combat Balance
Companions

If you are interested, we collected actual state and missing things therefore in this Thread

 

I am actively waiting to see what solution the Devs will come up with for the Obsidian Forge. I'm hoping it will be next release. I know they're at least thinking about it.

 

They have said this.. and this is partly why I play things in the order I do. I know for example about what I need to do the Shuttered Eye.. and I know Samael is available for every real fight after that. The one concern I would have at this point is how apparently this will be to the new incoming players that that is indeed the intent to jump between the first 3 paths.

BUT.. the bigger issues I had with perceived difficulty levels.. ie Grannus Colossus vs say.. Malice.. lay in the Path of the Oracle.. Grannus plus Obsidian Forge? There are no other paths to pursue by the time you're at that point.

 

I believe companions are slated for pre-launch but I haven't seen if they answered that question in the post mortem yet. Also the time it takes to actually do the main storyline is going to be a lot longer for someone new. I knew exactly where to go and how to get there and what to do next etc.. plus having already read most of the dialogue I skipped it.. so between my characters and including the newer side quests along the way (virtue armor etc).. I'm going to say two solid days.. 16-20 hours. I can easily see a new player topping 40+.

Fiona is the only one I'm aware of. There should be two more coming.

 

Thanks @Bowen Bloodgood for all that effort to verify if the entire avatar adventure was soloable.

Since the 2nd/3rd/etc characters slots are on Port's priority list what I'd like to see is a small party of new characters attempting to run through all the content from the very start once those are ready. Some grinding & some crafting which is what new players are going through now. If organized, it would be a great event and good advertisement for SOTA. Lots of great snapshots, videos and fun

Tagging @majoria70 @Brass Knuckles @Stundorn @Time Lord @Hornpipe @Spoon

 

Fantastic to hear, Bowen. Thanks for your time in going back.

1. With more narrative from quest line NPCs, I am hoping the "don't solve everything by killing" (or at least "he who runs away to fight again another day") theme should get through the Avatar's skull for monsters like the Gold Coral, Ghost Corpion, and Dragon in the Boreas Colossus. That scene has the deadliest monsters when you include the Dragon but requires no killing for any of them.

2. Ditto for the Obsidian Forge, where a grizzled veteran or sightless old man should be able to inform us on how to solo the Forge. I know it would take grind up to level X (X=60?) currently but I do think knowledge goes a long way in the combat mechanics of that Forge. It should be a challenging scene given its position as the near end game quest element. I am not a fan of expecting a Companion to help if Companions are not part of the Single Player Online experience.

Cheers

Ben

 

I would be more interested in why they did this part of the game like it is in the first place. I mean didn't they think about the offline mode, too when they designed this passage?

 

There was probably the assumption at the time that you'd have 3 companions offline to help out. Whether or not they originally intended to include it as part of the main story, or knew how they would do so is another story. I sometimes wonder just how far ahead some writers plan to take a story vs how much is made up as they go. You have the framework and then you have the details to flesh it out. How the evolution of the Obsidian Forge fits in might well be interesting but I doubt we'll ever really know.

It kinda feels like they just ran out of time on this one.. or are running short on it. This stage of the main story is implemented with no assistance and now they have to find an alternative way to let you solo it one time while keeping it difficult to do every other time.

That said.. I think it'd be weird to have not had it as part of the main quest. It's a major tie in to the past. (Ultima IX anyone? )

 

Major problem with the ghost corpion is the ranged poison attack. This time through I died from it AFTER I made it down the pit and back out the other side and was half way out of the maze! That poison is nasty business and lasts a long time. I didn't have the healing to compensate. I figured.. oh well.. I'll rez at the next ankh.. well the next ankh made me start over! I was just a wee bit annoyed.

 

I would have assumed you'd also get companions in SP Online. It seems to me the difference in the modes are:

SP Offline: Classic Ultima (Or as close as they can get it)
SP Online: Same as Offline but you also get everyone's houses and decorations and vendors etc...
MP Friends Only: A.K.A "I want Classic multi-player". Sort of like an Online D&D sesh mebbe? Elite Dangerous has a mode like this.
MMO: an MMO

But I could be wrong, I only check in from time to time, waiting for the big 52!

 

They kind of made this better. Only a certain ankh makes you start over, and they added a new ankh in the sunken area where you move past the corpion where you can res in place.

 

Good write up.

Only question is if you had any idea on the time frames it took you to go through each part?

 

That Kobold camp fight is a disaster. It was actually bugged when I tried it; after I died I couldn't get them to respawn/restart the fight. I had little to no chance of beating 3 waves anyway; I thought it was just going to be 1 fight.

If this was the kind of game where you press C to start a fight and hope for the best, this would be a fair fight. If you were expected to complete this with help 100% of the time this fight happens, this would probably be a fair fight. Expecting 100% of players to solo this is bad design.

 

Was split up over sessions and I wasn't paying that much attention unfortunately but the outskirts take up more time than any other part.

Yeah the way they put it to you there should just be 1 fight. You have to beat their 'champion'.. they don't tell you that you have to fight 4 rounds of opponents before the champion.. which isn't a champion at all.. it's a construct they just assigned the role too. I would rather expect an opponent that earned the title. So two personal annoyances there.