Risk vs Benefit

Discussion in 'Feedback Archive' started by Oremanger, Apr 22, 2020.

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  1. Oremanger

    Oremanger Avatar

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    I know I will be getting some hate mail for this but here it is:

    @Chris always been a proponent of risk benefit, my question is what is the risk to archers with a bard or to tamers with a nightmare sitting on a wall or a cliff away from all the mob and generating ungodly amount of damage? Is this is as intended?

    Thank you for reading.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  2. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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  3. Oremanger

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  4. Beaumaris

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    And here I thought that someone running past me at 20x speed this past weekend was odd.

    But hey, on the bright side, this sounds like innovative Nightmare play testing to discover this exploit.
     
  5. Barugon

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    Just curious, how does a bard help?
     
  6. Violet Ronso

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    A bard will boost attack speed, strength, and physical crit damage, pretty much 3 key components for an archer. And the buff they get from a bard is HUGE
     
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  7. kaeshiva

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    From a strictly devil's advocate perspective (not saying I think the pet wall thing is 'ok' - but hear me out)

    Its not about risk vs. benefit, and it never has been.

    At the CP, at the very least -someone- has to be down on the platform to keep the mobs triggered and someone has to heal that person.
    Using poorly designed skills, poorly balanced skills/pets, and mechanics such as height advantage, etc. in clever ways with good synergy to maximize damage output is just optimizing your gameplay.
    Having your archers/snipers up on a wall makes sense, its a tactically sound idea in any battle - there's a reason why medieval castles have the design they do.

    However, these players cannot do this without the aid of a group support structure, without a team of players working together to keep the point active, heal the tank, etc.

    So in this context we are saying the benefit is "exp" with not enough "risk" (or I wont say risk, how about not enough "effort")

    How is that different than everyone hiding behind a rock out of line of sight spamming meteors in UT?
    How is that different from a fire mage running circles around zombies who will never catch up?
    How is that different from archer setups using no focus/active skills with silly air shield crit-spamming bosses before they can close the gap?
    How is that different from killing a troll or dragon taking no damage because you can run around it faster than its animation?

    In an effort to make things more difficult, the response has been to make things hit ungodly hard. The player reaction has been to find ways to avoid getting hit at all, because unlike other games, damage mitigation is more about buttonmash and hopping/running about than it is about skills, passives, and gear. When this got brought up it was touted as one of the game's great successes, in that a player's "ability" was more important than a player's level, gear, advancement, etc. I remember Starr praising the guy who posted the video doing Torc'Dawl naked because it showed how much "player skill" mattered.

    So, now people have worked out the optimal set of circumstances and skills to combine to get experience in a group setting (damage = xp) as efficiently as possible.
    I agree the damage is a bit insane and the math needs to be checked, but if we're saying that players shouldn't be able to get exp without taking damage, well, we'd need to revise like 90% of the game.
     
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  8. Violet Ronso

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    100% agree with this, Damage mitigation is TRASH in this game, it usually is avoid a hit or die, à la Dark Souls, but with some hits that are unavoidable, which still hit for monstrous amounts, that tanks can barely mitigate... Damage Resistance needs to be re-evaluated, or mob damage, because tanks are not a fun playstyle with all the possible oneshots that exist in this game, even for someone in full meteoric plate, with a shield, and a spear, and all the defensive buffs.

    If the attack is avoidable with skill, let it hit hard, sure, but if it isnt, there needs a way for someone to mitigate a good portion of it if they are in full tanking gear...
     
  9. OzzyOsbourne

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    He doesnt care. Might as well do it to amirite?
    It needs twenty nerf hammers to strike all at once. The entire bard tree has turned this game into a joke, let alone the 10x quest exp and the 4x all exp. Once people realize how ridiculous it will be to get any gains after they spent their precious exp stimulus, they will be back crying all over again and nothing will change except maybe 8x exp roflmaoLAC
    Keep beating the dead horse
     
  10. GMDavros

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    At first I was against the whole stay up on the wall thing. As an archer/healer though it makes perfect tactical sense. Not a bug, not an exploit. Terrain is terrain. If you can hide behind it, you do. If you can climb it, you do. I get a damage bonus for height as part of the class, so why would i not take advantage of it? I do it everywhere else that I can.

    Having a bard in play has nothing to do with that. I'd do it with or without a bard.

    As far as reward goes, when a group calls out for a healer, that's what I do. I can do that job very effectively from up high. I dumped xp into my ability to heal from a greater distance, so I've already paid for the ability to do that. Same thing goes for ranged.

    Regarding the nightmare, maybe mine's just lazy, but more often than not it just sits there illuminating my peripheral vision. The damage it does is tied to the amount of xp I dump into taming. It's true that the bard amps up the crit damage, but that's for everyone. As stated earlier, it makes good tactical sense to use a nightmare over say, a bear when one has a ranged attack and one does not.

    Fenris
     
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  11. OzzyOsbourne

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    Heavy armor spec + shield.
    Funny cause im 100% in berserker stance and the only time I've ever been 1 shotted was by a Nightmare at max range from its fire attack.
    Or dragon bite which is completely avoidable... and that is the point... to avoid it by moving. Learning the tell...
     
  12. Violet Ronso

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    Ohh yeah, because that obviously helps against mobs that deal 1k+ unavoidable damage! Unless you get a block or a dodge, you are still gonna get hit like a truck, and those trucks are almost the norm nowadays with newer mobs, its either dodge, block, hide under cover, or die in seconds, no inbetween...
     
  13. OzzyOsbourne

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    Funny cause im 100% in berserker stance and the only time I've ever been 1 shotted was by a Nightmare at max range from its fire attack.
    Or dragon bite which is completely avoidable... and that is the point... to avoid it by moving. Learning the tell...
    BTW if you stay near the Nightmare, it wont hit as hard.
     
  14. OzzyOsbourne

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    There isnt a single mob in the game that can do that. Stop lying to prove a point.
     
  15. Violet Ronso

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    Never got hit by a lich bosses fireball for over 1k? Cause I have. Stop thinking you are the be all end all of this game, not because YOU don't see those things happen that they don't happen. Physical hits? 800-900 crits are not impossible, and that is with highest mitigation possible from this game.

    Ohh and do you want us to bring PVP into this? Because I remember you being part of the people who complained about Aimed shot and Auto-attacks from archers hitting for insane amounts, does your Heavy Armor spec help you all that much against those? Or do we not want to bring PVP into this discussion because it would prove you wrong? I am asking for better mitigation which is actual crap, I'm not asking to nerf anything you care about, guess what, real mitigation could actually help against your archers and your two-handers that you keep yelling about everywhere and anywhere...
     
  16. OzzyOsbourne

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    You said unavoidable. Use cover. Learn the tell. Its a ranged attack after all and his hands glow for a reason.
    I never complained about archers or aimed shots. You got the wrong guy.
     
  17. DukeUconn

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    TEAR DOWN THIS WALL !!!!
     
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