Serious question Quests and Sota

Ill admit im not a quester actually cant stand them, I did blow threw the main lines using youtube to get the cloak.

In my case ive spent about 3 hours on quests and 6,000 on non quest related things.

Here are my questions in a effort to understand why quest and story type things were such a huge focus in eps 1. Ultima was a quest based game where as uo was more of a sandbox, its my understanding this game is a spiritual successor to both. From my perspective I acknowledge it is massivly anti quest, im sure there are people who only like quests.

1. How many people like the questing side more than the sandbox side? Portal numbers time spent on questing vrs sandbox stuff would be awesome.

2. Should portal spend as much time and effort in eps 2 on quest/story stuff as eps 1?

3 Did the sandbox stuff take a back seat to story / quests?

4. What are more people interested in the long run, a system with both is better than one with either or for sure but where is that tipping point.

(Main topic focus how much time and effort should go into questing and story building vrs sandbox items, those could be stuff like pvp, boat fishing deep crafting etc).

 

1. I don't play for the quests. Very few games have engaged me with quests. The exceptions are things that are dynamic, and even then they are usually simplistic. I have 1500 hours in the game. I probably spent 10 hours on quests.
2. Only if they can do things that live and breathe and have further consequence. This is impossible. Static quests are going to be judged on how good they are. Even if the quests are good, once you finish them, that's it. Nothing left to do.
3. Not sure. I think they did mediocre with both. I'd prefer more sandbox tools to let us handle creating the content. This is more fresh to us as it could lead to very unique things.
4. I would love a great questing scheme that is engaging and rewarding. Something with consequence would be nice, but that's really hard to pull off without the resources (think Runescape or Elder Scrolls Online). I think you need both, simply because if you want people to stay, they are going to need things to do that are engaging once they are done questing.

 

1. I like them both. I came from FFXI and it's roughly the same, aside from technical implementation issues like cut scenes. SE eventually added new tie-up quests that require you to do ALL of the story content to get a lot of improved QoL stuff. It's like the people asking for rune books or reduced rent got them... but only after they completed all the main quests in E1 through E5 plus one more series of quests. That's why I think the "get a deed free with your shroud" thing is sensible. If they had resources, it would be better if they added a few more quests before you got that.

2. I think they got it about right, or maybe story/quests a little under done due to lack of resources.

3. The reverse happened. Story took a back seat to sandbox stuff. It also took a back seat to game systems, but that was necessary.

4. see #2

 

Good points, but for number 3 i dont see much sandbox elements yet with a cpl of exceptions home stuff and dance party costume stuff.

I guess it comes down to what I percieve as good sand box items huh.

 

I've avoided the quests until recently, but I've been enjoying sandbox play since persistence and before. Recently I started a new character and I'm attempting to play with fresh eyes. I've stuck strictly to quests and I'm quite enjoying it. Some of the older parts seem insubstantial but the newer quests feel well polished with plenty of background detail. I've spent most of my time so far in the outskirts, choosing to slowly work my way through the main quest lines while picking up most of the side quests.

My wife and I both thoroughly enjoy the game, but we're Kickstarters and true believers.

 

1. I love the quests. The story and lore are a big part of what I an hoping and expecting from this game. I am not here just for the quests, but for the RP community so that we can add more of our stories to the lore and use the lore as backgrounds and branching off points of our own stories.

2. Yes. Yes, please. I want to know what is going on with the obsidians, and I want to know more of the background of the world, is it a new world, or is it Britannia ruined after the events of U9? What is the obsidian? Is it blackrock? And many other questions!

3. I feel the story took a backseat to sandbox stuff. There are holes in the story that I hope get fixed. Some sidequests are so... weird, and designed just to be, go and do this. it doesn't make sense. I know that it is the standard for MMORPGs, which is why I stay away from them. I enjoy it when games are well designed and have a good story line. Ultima 5-8 were really good at that, giving a world that was alive and real, and quests that made sense. You did them to help people, not for treasure, but becuse you wanted to help, or to solve a puzzle.

4. Story and interaction with other people interested in story and building our own stories.

 

the quests to me would be more appealing if the items we get from them were able to be used as deco and still not tradeable making it our achievements or trophies we could collect. But i don't see much point in doing them when they are harder to follow then actually doing them and player made gear is better.

 

I'd prefer a pause to any and all online elements. Deliver a vastly smaller, high quality, self-contained, single player 40-hour narrative first and cut everything else out for now.

A team this small cannot support the sheer size and scope of the current game. It will be in a constant state of disrepair if they don't descope and cut.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by side questing vs. sandbox; particularly what you mean by "sandbox" and how you distinguish it from side questing. Does sandbox just mean decorating your home? Does it mean grinding?

Something that was great about the best Ultima games is that they were non-linear and you weren't led by the nose through the story elements, so most of the game was spent adventuring around and discovering the story. So, I might want to buy something in Buccaneer's Den, but then I get lost at sea, run into a sea serpent, and then land on a small island you find to make camp and heal your injuries. You only manage to heal so much because you run out of food. Then sailing some more, you run into a shipwreck with some ghosts and secrets. Eventually secrets from this shipwreck give you some hints on a quest. Eventually, you make it to Buccaneer's Den and stock up on some more food and supplies.

So the questing and the "sandbox" engagement were indistinguishable. Its what most RPGs are missing today, especially MMOs. The adventuring has been replaced by grinding, and the non-linear questing has been replaced by quest journals with quest markers.

 

1.a)

Primary I am a great fan of Adventure and Roleplaying games. I prefered Ultima instead Bard's Tale because of the huge storyline and quests.
Yes, Bard's Tale also was a fun game - but the hack'n slay system couldn't give the feeling of an Ultima fight ...

With UO I started to play the first time for ... ? nothing ? Well, the first time in UO was really hard. People just waiting around the corner to kill others ...
Even if they just entered the game for the first time. I wondered a lot about - but I learned and accepted. It made the entry into the game hard, because there weren't only monsters around I could focus on - more dangerous were "red" players
Because of this I really don't understand why people are telling, SotA would be too hard to understand ... The beginner scenes provide a lot of help.

So the reason for me to leave UO after a few years was the missing reason to live in this world: interesting story. I know: storyparts came later, but at that point I enjoyed Adventure games like Baphomet ...

To be honest: I also wasn't the kind of child playing in a sandbox - for the same reason: other children who claimed it would be their sand and beating others with their shovel Not understanding that, because the only thing they could take with at the evening was sand in their pockets, under their fingernails, and may be in their hair and mouth - I really had no reason to make that kind of experience Well, that's just me. I suppose some children loved it!

The Role Playing game I really loved after UO was Lands of Lore I, because it delivered a great storyline with interesting quest elements.

So, that told, these are the reasons why I like the story/quest side more - but: appreciating the whole sandbox elements (why: 3.)

1.b)

I am Adv.lvl. 93. I did a lot of quests more than one time Also in offline mode. Did Intros a lot of time to provide feedback.
Really don't know my game hours, it's different, so I will tell in %.

100% of my time while testing on QA is for Story/Quest testing.
This should be 10 - 20 % of my whole game time.
So 50 - 60% Story/Quests - including the riddles which can be found in scenes!
10% reading and writing on forum
20% Crafting (Blacksmithing, Tailoring, Carpentry, Alchemy)
5 - 10% Helping Newbies. Answering questions, providing help.
1 - 5% hanging around in Soltown and listen to music


2.

I don't know how much time and effort was spent on story/quests in comparison to other stuff like housing. Watching the progress over 4 years I would say, it wasn't enough:
A bad arranged Journal, a map taking the feeling of exploring away, missing depth of quests (last thing changed in the last 9 months ...)
Disturbing and distracting technical stuff taking story feeling away ...

So, yes, there should be more QUALITATIVE work on storyline.
For example:
I didn't understand why - in a classless system - it was insisted to
- give the possibility to choose a class (instead of the choosen path) --> mage, ranger, fighter
This made the whole intro (a great thing of all Ultima games) senseless!
- tell the newbie to take a sword or a bow. Wouldn't it be enough to tell: take a weopon and the player could choose, what (s)he would like?

YES, the story should be focused on MORE QUALITY and more LOGIC.
@Puuk showed how the story can be improved in a very good way.
Try the "House on the Hills" quest in Harvest if you never tried

3.

In my opinion (the reason why I took the comparison to the first time of UO) the sandbox is the base for everything.
How shall we build a sandcastle? (Housing)
How shall we build sandcookies? (Crafting)
And how shall we use a shovel (tools) without sand? (materials).

The basis of a huge world is the sandbox providing all posibilities.

Also for telling great stories, where we can run, swim, ride and travel by boat to exciting places ...
... just for sightseeing, hunting or following an adventure and quests ...

4.

Can't say, what's more interesting for most people. For me it's clear - and @Lord British promised a great story over 5 Episodes.
That's why a lot of players invested in this game. And I also like to read and have a role inside each Episode ...

Beside this I really enjoy to visit the great designed places all over Novia (all the special riddles in each scenario! That's one of the great things beside the main story line!
That's both: great sandbox elements - and story beside/inside the story).

While there was nothing else to do in the first years I also tried stuff, I never did in UO, and for sure hadn't used if I would have started after launch:
Crafting.

And I have to say, after 4 years of playing:
ALL POSSIBILITES INSIDE THE GAME ARE FUN - if we just try and give it a chance.
That's what makes this game unique: The diversity of possibilities.

And at last, one of my interests beside playing the game:
I really enjoy to watch the progress month by month. In the 80's I read computer/game magazines and I liked the articles telling about development of games.
This crowdfunding project gave and still gives the great chance of watching this week by week - month by month. Also a reason to be here

So, I just can say: go on with the good work - and yes, KEEP THE PROMISE ON TOP:
Deliver a great Story. This will give flesh to the (sandbox) bones - and this is what creates worlds ...
At least 50% of time for storyline and quests / riddles. This includes(!) design of matching scenes!

ALL CONTENT IS IMPORTANT.
I would like to tell an example, how Crafters and Friends of Questing and typical sandbox players (also PvP) could be pleased with special quests:
(If @Chris and @DarkStarr would consider this)
It would be great, if we could upgrade/enchant/master received QUEST (virtue) armor and weapon to make them really more unique
The virtue armor/weapon could provide bright or dark colors depending on our (anti) virtues ...
Not another quest, but a quest giving joy for all players, because we don't just receive another (deco) piece for our bank/house.
No, we can improve! some special received items ... may be only with very special materials we have to receive in other quests
These quests could be a great challenge ... imagine a virtue armor peace crafted by an virtuous crafter receiving virtue power - and another with anti virtuous power ... depending on our individual virtue state ... and crafting skills

 

I think focusing on an offline experience could get us closer to the Ultima experience in a very good way and also would enrich the online experience!

 

Damn good job man, so you would say that doing quests and story lines are more important for you than having sandbox elements like a deep fishing system like what uo had or things like battlegrounds N treasurehunts and stuff like that?

Thats cool, I think this game can offer a little of each at a time but not lots of both. It will be up to portal to figure ballance points.

 

Yes, it's like reading a book or watching a film - with the possibility to be one of the player...

Well, I would say, we also should focus on overlapping content (my last example in the post above).

A few examples:
I also would enjoy to enter a huge battleground full of Undead (imagine: 500 Avatars on one side and may be 2000 on the other).
That would be a great scenario! may be tooo llaaaaag, but dreaming is still allowed

Who tells, the only reason to run around should be to fight?
There could be a few special bosses (to receive special items), there could be a special place (to find a chest/map) and also a portal somewhere to have a fast journey elsewhere (may be another quest is awaiting).
By the way, there could be a backpack found with a simple skeleton (not only with bosses) providing ancient materials ...

And crossing the sea on the boat with 100 Avatars, while sea dragons attack - wow. Great.

All that would be interesting.
Another simple one: fishing while nothing happens on our trip over sea provides a big fish.
While we try to cook it we find a bottle - with a special message starting a special quest ...

And remember Exodus - Ultima III? As the Vortex got us while on ship - and we awoke on that special Isle
We only could get back by entering the Vortex again ... Another portal - but not predictable ...

A last one: Trying to repair/salvage an armor we found as loot - the armor breaks, but provides something special hidden inside ...
a message? a special ring? a special/better material?

There are so many possibilities to surprise and make content more interesting. Not only with "big" scenarios.
And I believe also those "small" things which could happen around would make the game more fun ...

P.S.: After spending 1000 coins over a time period to a beggar (s)he makes us a special gift:
raising up a Skill 1 point! Learn a special Emote (Don't worry be happy now)!
May be a map to a virtuous treasure? ...

The beggar is part of the sandbox. (S)he is not important. Providing good (story)content can change a lot ... for every player and playstyle.

 

Hehe thats cool you like that, for me id not like a game fully around questing when reading a book I tend skip to the end


It seams the majority of the Ultima fans like the story stuff and the majority of the Uo fans prefer the sandbox.

 

That's the challenge for the Team of Portalarium - and a good reason to focus on overlapping content
I think they did a good job until now.

 

I don't play for the main quest either but I do want a great achievement system and dailies for reasons to do things and to add interest and rewards from doing things and perhaps give incentives to do things. Things like exploration and climb every mountain in the game, discover every fish type, kill one of each type of creature, or tame every type, eat every type of food, and on and on. These could reward us with a point system Toward cotos, rare paintings, titles that give different buffs when we have them on, and of course we can switch titles for situations.

I really want to finish our systems we already have too such as fishing, agriculture, cooking, etc to include details like for fishing more types of fish, sharks, piranhas, fish found in different climates, time of day, harder to find higher tier fish and better and more fish recipes, bait types, pole types, message in a bottle with treasure maps.

Agriculture needs more interesting things like plants can die and need fertilizer, perhaps music makes them grow better or scares pests away. Perhaps when harvesting we find special seeds or components.

This game is a virtual home to many of us and incomplete systems do a disservice to the game. I actually play most parts of the game not just fishing. I want all systems to be good in this game. It deserves it after all. I know funding for this game is needed but imo we need things finished to a more complete state very badly.

 

I just got this weird idea from your comments about agriculture:
When they get some money, they could have this huge world event like how the news goes nuts every 15 years or so when the cicadas hatch. In this event there could be something like that but the obsidians were performing experiments on them so you not only have a threat of swarms of bugs that not only destroy crops, but we could have regional tides of them. The subterranean system that is already in the game could give us the objective to go in and take put hives and stuff. This could generate goals that could be combat focused, crafting focused (almost every reality needs some form of pesticide...)
OK, I'm rambling and need to start my own thread or something! Forgive me @Brass Knuckles. That is an attractive thing about this game:
Portalarium could not decide what to focus on so they gave the team the freedom to go off the reservation in many directions (too many but look at the potential!) My tangent is @majoria70's fault, she inspired me!

 

Without wanting to open a whole can of worms, the original intent for this game was way, way, way, way more Ultima focused. Not "massively" multiplayer and UO-centric at all.

As time went on, the project sort of morphed and as it became more of an MMO, it was natural for people to assume it was a UO successor, but that's not how it originally was pitched.

And, FWIW, if you took Richard and Starr out of the equation and asked someone what the game world reminded them of, I doubt 1 in 10 would think of any flavour of Ultima, RPG or MMO.

 

1. I would enjoy the questing side slightly more than the sandbox side. I feel this game more poorly implemented the questing, so for this instance of a game I go for 100% sandbox, although I do not have the disposable income to fully explore the box.

2. The time or money should be spent on making the game more fun and challenging. While meaningful quests can provide that, the enjoyment would be limited to the one time play through, an MMO needs the sandbox to hold ones attention.

3. The sandbox became a frustration independent of questing. The cumbersome instancing makes the hundreds of sandboxes feel insubstantial, and there is very little in it that is rewarding on any level for me.

4. Long term, PvP could be better if it didnt take 30 minutes and 4 instances to switch it on. Most PvE elements could be improved in the same way. Balancing should be punishable by death and all that time and energy should be put forth to provide new content, new MOBs, new challenges, instead of altering the difficulty or ease of existing content. Zero attention should be spent on how to generate revenue and 100% Focus should be used on making the game enjoyable and rewarding, which I admit would be a large pendulum swing.

 

They should try something no mmo so faar tried.
Have an Game Master
Provide the tools, scripted events, what not, but non static quests and you either are there when it happens or not (and be adult enough to not whine about it)
Each weekend make something, whatever, surprise.

Then, we need many small quests like harvest the witch ghost, but having an GameMaster would be substantial.

Otherwise, I play games for the story, or content, not in the hope that something beautyfull happens if you stick a random number of random people into an gameworld.