Should Virtues Be Reset w/ R45

Let's not forget the Blood River Massacre scene (pre outskirts; don't know if it's still this bad) where the avatar is asked to look for clues re the massacre. It is counter intuitive to not search each corpse for clues along this adventure, yet searching the corpses is a Truth virtue hit. How many corpses were there? Scores. There are plenty still carrying around the virtue hits from this one example.

If the Devs are familiar w/ the virtues of Justice and Fairness, they will reset things and also make sure poorly put together scenarios like the above are no longer part of the game.

 

Except that you missed 2 important informations there :
- when fighting you, Fauns yell at you that they are FORCED to do so and pray for your mercy.
- fauns are smaller than you and obviously weaker.

Here you are thinking in terms of tactics. In a fight, indeed, healers are generaly the priority target. But fauns don't fight anymore as soon as there is no satyr in their surrounding. In these conditions, killing the fauns makes things easier for you, it's a convenience, but it's cruel and a mark of cowardice.

There should be no reset of the virtue score in my opinion. The virtue score is not a min/max thing as @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos stated very clearly.

 

I'm not sure about the corpses but the virtue hit there is probably for love (lack of compassion). Then it makes sense to have a hit on the love virtue, even when you are working for the truth one.

 

When fighting, enemies yell all kinds of stupid . Deception anyone? If you hadn't played the story and when there's no "back-up" around they act like wimps and as soon as something bigger shows up they grow a backbone... You can easily see how this can be interpreted. They're a case/point priority target that affects your virtue without the player really knowing.

IF you only took the hit when you attacked fleeing fauns? Sure. Is this the case? no it's not.

When I'm fighting stuff, it's pretty natural to think in terms of tactics. I don't really have an endearing term for anyone that does otherwise.

Everything you said makes PERFECT sense IF you understand the Faun relationship to the Satyrs. This is anything but clear if you haven't gone through the Truth story line and no you CAN NOT simply say "Oh the mob told me so" because that's a load of . Mobs "say" all kinds of nonsense and rarely is it true. Clear information or a visible "karma"esque system so you IMMEDIATELY know when you've done something naughty/something the game finds naughty so the player is actually aware of their actions.

Don't get me wrong I couldn't be bothered to give two flying about the virtue system because it has no real bearing. Since it has no real bearing then there's truly no need for min/maxing, BUT I view this "veil" of sorts keeping the information about the system hidden as a flaw and yet another design decision that could possibly turn people away. If it has no bearing... Why hide it so?

 

It definitely needs to be reset. They boast of this deep conversation technology (that was in the beginning.) I didn't realize that it was marketing-speak for you can type to NPCs. I don't talk to them anymore unless I am doing one of the quests. When I don't get a truth hit for telling an NPC that I am here to protect them and it thinks that I am telling them my name (again. I used to tell them my name before asking theirs.) It was like that in the beginning and I think it is covfefe that I get a permanent stain on my virtue because someone codes like I do. I don't care that it is a very small hit. That freak that calls itself the Oracle told me that I regard Truth with disdain when I met it. I thought %*$!# you don't know me! Who the ^&%@ do you think you are sitting there and judging me!?
Occasionally it tells me that I regard love with disdain and I think now that's a little better but 'so?' I get that. If you don't get virtue hit for stupid stuff anymore then I would vote no but I want the virtue that I was dinged on unfairly. I should not have to conduct my character to make up for bad design.

There was a time that @Berek got rid of one my posts because I was 'using profanity.' I thought I was trying not to cuss everyone out! Those are swear words!? Well the only one who can say for sure are people like @Lazarus Long who get every post mailed to them. I didn't get banned but I'm pretty sure that there are members of our community that will always look at me sideways. I just chalk that up to folks being more gently bred than some of us from Flint, MI who have a direct connection from their brain to their mouth. I don't want to erase the fact that I behaved badly in that case even though I thought I posted the sanitized version of what I was thinking. I don't mind that. I already want to kill every NPC that says "I don't know what you mean" when you try to elaborate on something they asked you for help with. That is so frustrating.

 

Currently you can redeem all virtues through in-game actions. The only thing ive seen that has a substantial negative impact is murdering innocent npcs and rampant townstealing.

Ive stolen from dungeons alot and still maintain a positive truth virtue.

Your virtue "levels" are hidden because its not intended to be min/maxed and it will have influence on future mechanics.

You can visit the oraccle to see if youve madeany positive/negativedecisions. Or wear an Oracle Cloak to seethe same.

 

And again.. NOT knowing is the point. I won't say the system is perfect or can't be improved.. BUT.. the system is about your behavior.. not which stats you can raise or lower.

 

How is it NOT fair? Virtue isn't about how others perceive you.. it's about your actions. The virtue hit has nothing to do with whether or not you get caught.. it's whether you do the action at all. A thief is still a thief regardless of witnesses. Not getting caught doesn't make you innocent.

 

I would argue that it's not permanent. Sure the system likely needs improving and both players and devs make mistakes.. BUT.. if the virtue hit is truly from a mistake then your regular behavior should correct it over time.

 

virtue in SotA is an algorithm that scores some of your avatars actions. These algorithms changed and still change over time. Shortcomings of the ui (name interpretation, accidental stealing, inability to look at wares (pick up and put goods back is usually not stealing) or the inability to control targeting in combat always well... are all reasons why a fresh start when everything runs as intended would be a good idea and level the playing field. On the other hand if you follow the avatar = player logic then the virtues indeed are only an imperfect scoring of the player's actions that have limited importance.

 

Not sure why you're responding to the quote that you are.. but I was responding to the suggestion that your shouldn't take a virtue hit for stealing if your action is not witnessed.

I wonder also.. what "playing field" is being leveled here? Virtue is not a competition. It's meant to be a reflection of how you play. And how many times should we do this reset I wonder? Because a couple years down the road someone is going to ask for it with all the same justifications.. well the UI essentially made me do it.. I missed and hit a horse because it got too close or what have you.

Fix the problems as best you can to deal with the 'edge cases' and issues sure. I'm all for it. Then your behavior in-game should then correct any virtue issues over time. A reset isn't necessary.

 

My take on this was that the game went persistent over a year ago. So that should have been everyone's wake up call that your actions are permanent due to no final wipe.

But regardless, as @discipleofweb posted above, it looks like it will get reset to some degree anyhow, so nothing to really worry about here if that number truly is that low. I guess that begs the question -- if it's such a low number why even bother retaining it? Either it has enough value to make it sting but not be too punishing or it's too low to even matter...

 

I am resigned to having low virtue. My discussion with some NPC in Jaanaford solidified my belief that all of the NPCs deserve to die as painfully as possible. I wish my field dressing skill worked on some of these people I talked to today. My virtue is being evaluated based on my interactions with these people? Covfefe! I propose that we have tribunals for jerk NPCs to pay for their insolence! Hopefully they won't hack that creepy Oracle and have it levy more sanctions against me. Damned NPCs!

 

I assume this is either sarcasm or the greatest irony I will witness today.

 

Well i know i took Virtue hits because of stealing deco stuff. LOL. Fine. I killed innocents at times. Frankly the killing thing is iffy with me. Sorry but if they attack me i attack back regardless who they are. Not really sure what else i did to take such hard hits on Truth Virtue unless it was something in Artifice when i finished that quest. But my Truth has been bad for a while. Virtue cloak is still blue and Shroud is white....but barely white. Out of the final answers in my book i am walking the path of Chaos. Only three positive Virtues and the rest were negative....so they say. HAHA. Well i walk on the wild side when i play anyways. Balls to the wall fighting and go in both swords flaming. So if this makes me Chaos then so be it. I still will give a begger a coin and still try to avoid killing innocent things but when it comes down to it. Survivial. I am a nice person for the most part in game and most can attest to that....but if the Oracle and those believe me Chaotic then i guess i can play it that way too.
As for resetting I dont think I will do it as it was a pain in the arse to finish the first time. I dont think i have the patience to go through it again. I will help guildmates when they do theirs to see the new stuff but seriously do not think i will do it.
Unless its forced reset. If so then hmmmm i might just skip the questlines altogether. Choices. We should have the choice and if we choose not to reset then we live with what we got

 

Its not just Janneford....its all over Novia and Hidden Vale. Heck the guards in our town are rude as hell. WHo pays their paychecks....me with my taxes. And others are rude as well in other NPC towns. I guess they dont realize that Outlanders are here to try and save their world for them. Rudeness...pfffft. Let them survive on their own then. Ooops sorry that was my Chaos voice speaking

 

This:

And this:

Though all of that is moot because of what @discipleofweb quoted above. Thankfully, IMHO.

The other thing that I don't quite get is that one virtue can throw the other two out of whack. Allow me to elaborate using myself as an example. I got Cord into "the red" by pickpocketing a training dummy. Something which you can no longer do. One could debate (as @Budner and I did) does the act of "practicing" pickpocketing on a training dummy constitute intent? Taking that aside, I still had very high Courage and Love virtues (back when we could still see them using the /stats command as well as the "Oracle Test", currently). It didn't matter though, my one "lacking" virtue of Truth was able to counterbalance both Courage and Love. Which I don't think makes much sense.

Moreover, because I don't like being "red" I did EVERYTHING I could to virtuously try and get back to at least "light blue". I spent hours giving coins to beggars, ran around telling everyone my full damn name, saved fauns by the truckload, all to no avail! I stopped stealing things (sorry @EclipseMaiden, no more free deco ) , never even used pickpocket and we all know I don't PvP! Nothing...So similarly to @Belladonna Rose (Loved your posts btw ) I wasn't psyched about being an avatar of Chaos, but you know what? F*ck it! I'll rock this black shroud with the best of them. It matches my Obsidian Armor anyway! Right? Right!

Unfortunately, for me and my OCD, it irks me. I want to be an Avatar of Order (or whatever it's called) and the white shroud would look awesome contrasted with my Obsidian armor! I could understand that if I was still stealing stuff, slaughtering fauns, lying to NPCs and pickpocketing my way through life, then yes I should be red. Yet this is not the case and has not been for many releases. No matter what I do (that I currently know of) seems to change my "virtue color" from red to blue. Plus, shouldn't my high Courage and Love at least even out my Truth score? I don't know, maybe not. Hence the reason for this post, I wanna hear my fellow avatar's opinions.

What I would also be curious to know, and I'd love it if @Lum the Mad had this data, is what virtue is most lacking with all avatars. I'm thinking it's probably Truth, but who knows except the Oracle!

 

No. Not until they fix Humility.

 

What's a Paladin?