Shroud of the Avatar VS UO skill system

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by jsopranik, Dec 5, 2014.

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  1. jsopranik

    jsopranik Avatar

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    Currently I'm not a fan of the skill system currently in place on sota. I was a long time player of UO and the use skill gain skill system was/is far more enjoyable. I had high expectations that this would be UO's resurrection with modern graphic and I'm actually kind of disappointed. Higher skills from use = performing that skill better and more effectively, from mining better ore or crafting better items to doing more damage with spells or melee. UO had a simple and effective skill system which would do great justice if sota would implement it.
     
  2. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    ~Time~ is a very long thing...
    I can appreciate what you're saying, yet I could have grown a beard down to my shoes and across the floor from when that game was made. In it's time, it too was thought of as being uncomfortable to many players from other games, yet as those players began to see the scope of where it was going, it became a very big success. It's the same now with SotA, where innovative state of the art options for the player, have not been overshadowed by the need for eye dazzling graphics, with interactiveness as it's core value.
    We've only just scratched the thin surface here with SotA thus far, and so far it's come a long way to meeting the goal of having interactiveness as it's hallmark, which will force all other games to further evolve, "just as UO did".
    So, I can see your concerns, yet UO isn't something that is still living or thriving within today's modern gaming market. EA had their chance to do exactly what you describe, yet the old, yet wonderful for it's time UO, is a very dead game when it comes to being a gaming platform for the future. Yet also, the game company that owns UO would have very big problems with a replica of it's game being reworked... yet the spirit of all Ultima, is alive and well here through it's design team and independent Lord British, who now has no EA to hinder his vision, or the dream team that has gathered around him to create our "New Britannia"...
    This isn't UO... "it's the next step beyond it" but all of us here loved that game's beginnings ;)
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  3. MalakBrightpalm

    MalakBrightpalm Avatar

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    I will say that a skill use system could IMPROVE the way things currently work. I'll also say that improper implementation could ruin this game.

    But I am overall in favor of trying some manner of use based skill progression.
     
  4. Lord Colin

    Lord Colin Avatar

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    Very disappointed to see something described as a spiritual successor to Ultima (series or Online) not having a skill usage based system. I like the idea of decks, which feel an awful lot like skill locks.

    It's my humble opinion that developers overthink combat mechanics. UO had no "action" bars or varied swings/stances/tomfoolery (until much later into the expansions) yet managed to have a very deep and rewarding combat experience. While I'm not opposed to these things, I'd wish they would add to my experience; not detract.
     
  5. Gubbles

    Gubbles Avatar

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    I agree with ya. I really would enjoy a progression system that is skill based, and not level based. This concept of spending time using a sword, and then immediately running to the Skills Trainer to be become proficient in magic is wrong. I would love to know why this approach was taken, and I hope there are reasons other than for convenience and familiarity/conformity to popular MMOs. SotA sure didn't take the familiar approach with the deck system; why should we conform to popular MMOs with the progression system? If I had a magic wand I'd innovate a skill based progression system in SotA, instead of the combat interface.
     
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  6. ilcontegis

    ilcontegis Avatar

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    I would suggest to focus on what is important in SotA everything else can wait.
    - Remove level system and move towards a skill based system
    - Improve graphics and animation
    - Improve the combat system
    - Improve the crafting system
    - Create a real gathering system
     
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  7. MalakBrightpalm

    MalakBrightpalm Avatar

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    Soooooo, everything.
     
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  8. licemeat

    licemeat Avatar

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    Anything but the UO system doesn't make sense to me. It is so basic and easy to understand because it mimicked real life. If you use carpenter tools over and over to make things. . . you become a better carpenter. Not a better blacksmith or tailor. You swing a mace? You are get better at maces. Why complicate things?
     
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  9. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

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    while I'm not happy with the current system, i do not think that the old UO system is the way to go in its old implementation. this is considered a spiritual successor, not a literal successor. things are expected to be different. hopefully, better. :)

    i do really enjoy the idea of skills leveling up as you use them..but i also feel that a separate, already existing system should remain too..

    I'd like to see the skill trees adjust abilities like fire resistance, provide ice/stone/fire fist, etc much like they do now - excluding strength dexterity, intelligence..stats in other words. this way we define who we are and what are toons can do.

    the use of 2h weapons and shields could enhance strength over time, naturally.
    1h weapons in single arm, should build strength, but dual wielding should build dexterity.
    magic should, obviously, build intelligence..
    these base stats should built slowly but consistently based on use. - this doesn't DEFINE us, it helps us fulfill the potential we give ourselves.

    lets say, i play this game for 2 years as a light armor magic user using wand and/or staff.
    my dex and str will be horribly low, if not still remaining baseline from the day i started, while my intelligence will be off the charts.
    one day, i pick up a great sword - i SHOULD be horrible at it, and i shouldn't HAVE to respec my skill trees. i SHOULD have to go back to killing wolves small spiders etc, until i get my strength and great sword built up again.

    a step further: remember fable 2? where the use of skills weapons etc literally shaped your body? - give me a great sword or 2h axe, and I'll look like Skolgar Toste over time...give me two daggers and I'll look like Seregil i Korit Solun Meringil Bokthersa from the nightrunner series, or from the same, give me a staff and I'll look like Nysander Magyana or Thero after slinging fireballs around. I'm talking physical build here. let your actions truly define you.

    player level could be a (not so) simple math problem of all of the above, including crafting skills leveling up and other things.. over time. and anything but mostly meaningless except for perks you get for aging in the game. like...say.. the ability to focus on a crafting skill for a hobby, and gain skill in THAT faster..nothing truly game changing, and wouldn't change terribly much over the current system.

    meh, just my overly-sleepy thoughts.. i'ma go get some rest.
     
  10. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    Being a Trained Rat Can Be Fun! :)
    While I can sympathize with some of the feelings here of all the hopes to return to a happier time where we were inside our comfort zone doing everything we've been trained to enjoy...

    I also feel that I get tired of finding myself in the same trained gaming rut...
    But I also feel that being a trained rat can also be fun.
    So I do play other games, but not many ;)
    They look like happy rats, don't they? o_O
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  11. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Im a firm believer of using skill to build skill! That would define who we are in the game,

    "i cast magic and im good at and do good damage with my spells because im a mage!"

    "I am a wielder of sharpened steel, a great swordsman, a worthy opponent when on the field some call me a fighter!"

    "I wear plate armor and wield blunt weapons , I channel healing spells, and buffs you need me
    in any battle and i can resurrect you, or heal you when you fight, undead are no match for my faith I am a Cleric!"

    "I am quiet as a moonless night, the shadows is where i dwell, I make problems disappear! I can also gain those items you or I want so bad without notice and disappear into the crowd because im a Thief and or an Assassin!"

    "I am swift as the wind i move through the forests as graceful as a gazelle, im quiet as a field mouse moving through the woods, with my bow and arrows my aim is true, and my short sword closes the gap when needed! I am a ranger!"

    "I am one with nature i call upon its natural magic to assist me in my needs i can transform into a small mouse and you will not notice me, i can transform into a large bear to equal your strength, my informants are the animals they tell me the truth of you when you think no ones listening, the animals are my army, my staff made of the strongest wood! I am a Druid!"

    "I dwell in the dark the legions of the dead serve only me, I am the nightmare in your head , and the bump in the night, I am the fear that envelopes you in darkness! I am true horror, one look at me turns your blood cold and numbs your skin! For I am a Necromancer!"

    "I am the blacksmith you come to when your armor or weapon is damaged, i create wondrous armor and weapons! My shop is filled with shiny steel to protect your life while on your dangerous adventures! I can even imbue your items if needed! I am a Black Smith!"

    "When your in need of quick fixes, extra strength, cure for that poison that the "machine gun spider" injected into your system, or the cure that some evil being cast on you, I am the one with the cocktails to make it all happen! I am an Alchemist!

    "When your hungry and on the edge of starvation, i am the one that lays out food for you on the table that reminds you of how good home cooking was when you were young, brings to your nostrils the sweet aroma of home! I am a Cook"

    "If you want nice furniture or decorations for the home you worked so hard on to get, i can make you a soft bed or comfy chair for you, if you want to impress the lords and ladies i can make the most exquisite furniture and decorations for you! Need an extra wall or two i can also add a room to your house you didn't have before! I am a Carpenter!"

    "Weather getting cold out? I can make or mend leather armor and shoes to keep you warm and protected, i make the finest boots known to all! Dull or shiny i can make either for you! Want that "huge rug" toned to the right colors? I can make that! I can also make you nice clothes for those special events, holidays or Marriages! For i am a Tailor!"

    Things like that truly define who we are in game! This is our chance to become something in reality we may not be! Let us choose our own individual defining paths! Let us go to a (real) crafter with better than normal items and purchase their goods! Instead of an average NPC vendor! Lets us roll play our characters and define who we are in this great new world!

    Please go back to using a skill to build a skill!!
     
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  12. Sebastion

    Sebastion Avatar

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    I am not big on the point system that has been adopted and I think I would prefer to use a skill to gain experience in it .

    But I guess I am on board with the current system and hope they can tweak it into a bit of a hybrid of both. At least currently the adventuring and crafting point pools are going to be separate.

    I suggested before that maybe they can build on that separation even more. Giving each skill its own pool where you gain points using it and you can distribute those points throughout that skills tree.
     
  13. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    :oops: How many trained rats are in this picture?

    Innovation, not excavation, modern, and definitely not archaeology...
    There's the best design team ever assembled here...
    With only one big brother to follow...
    The father of all modern MMOs...
    That's the SotA Difference! ;)
    Have faith in the team...
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  14. ilcontegis

    ilcontegis Avatar

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    So many people are saying that SotA is the spiritual successor of UO. I would be happy if that was the case, at the moment I don't see so much related to UO.
    To me right now (pre-alpha R12) Sota is a WoW inspired game with an UO graphic theme (and housing). On the same line ESO is a WOW inspired game with a Skyrim theme.

    It seems to me that everything is concentrated around housing, which to me is the least important part of the game.
     
  15. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    I can relate to where you're coming from o_O...
    Now for the different news... spiritual means nothing mechanical, accept that it is a MMORPG.
    Yet it is also advertized as the spiritual successor to Ultima Prime, which were all the offline Ultima Games that came before UO.
    Yet still, :rolleyes: none of the rights to all of these games mentioned are owned by Portalarium. So, our game can be the spiritual successor to them, but not barrow from those game's gaming mechanics.
    WoW was inspired by UO and UO was inspired by Ultima Prime, and that's just their "Lineage too" :eek: OMG I said LineageII! :p Sorry Richard, but that game of yours is still very big over here in Asia ;)
    So, taking this all in, we can expect a game that has the names of New Britannia as well as Lord British and the best parts of UO's success story in the form of many of our design team and of course Darkstarr!
    Then there's a much deeper Quest story and back story lore, which complements our game's past as it was coming from Ultima Prime, which some players may be too young to have played on an Apple or Commador64 with a very big floppy disk.

    As for the housing... :oops:
    This is one of the most important things I think you bring up in the form of housing not really being needed or as important as it now seems.
    I think this is a very relevant view point that needs to be addressed in some way which could then offer other non-home owning members (which should be the better part of the vast majority of us here some day) something of value that they could help support our game by it's purchase. If there's 100,000 players that don't have or want, or even need a home, then there must be something more or many things more our game could offer within our members of this future vast majority.
    100,000 X $10.00 is still $1,000,000.00 that could go to support our game's future development. I currently see many items becoming not available, with nothing replacing them in their wake. Most of the items that have been available, have catered to the home owner and crafter, yet have left the average adventurer who has no home and with only a secondary interest in crafting out in the cold with nothing much to offer except fan fare items. Many of our early backers did not wish our game to have combat related equipment to enter into our game on the excuse of that better equipment means we are somehow selling combat advantage... but the same argument of combat advantage is still present when owning a home, which makes things easier on everything to get ahead in life, which thus trickles down to providing combat advantage, yet in a hidden way. I know that was a very long sentence :rolleyes: but it's still a very big issue.

    I know that none of this could make the UO searcher feel any better, yet from the design team to the chief in charge around here, "this is our New Britannia".
    Your statements are very valid and have been said many times for a very long time around here ilcontegis... but this is the way the SotA world is for us.
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  16. jsopranik

    jsopranik Avatar

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    The skill system currently in sota is very mainstream and WoWish. Adopting the UO skill systems from what I am gathering is the overwhelming favor of the players and wouldn't a problem as far as copyright laws are concerned. If that was a fact than the creators of Wow and many others would have sued the creators of sota already for having a lvl based system. Do us all a favor and give us the skill usage system!!
     
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  17. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    UO's system promoted macroing and playing unattended to get GM status. SotA's system promotes playing the game normally and having fun to advance.
     
  18. jsopranik

    jsopranik Avatar

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    Everything was also typed as far as talking to vendor, simple fix to your explanation. Do not allow macro ' s
     
  19. Lord_Darkmoon

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    But SotAs system also encourages grinding. So you either have macroing or grindig...

    I don't see SotA as the spiritual successor to UO but as the spiritual successor to Ultima and this includes the single player games. But as of yet, there don't seem to be many similarities to the single player Ultimas. So basically all the single player Ultima fans would need to start complaining about all of the missing SP features to make SotA more a spiritual successor to the single player Ultimas...

    But aside from that I would rather have a skill system in which you get better by using skills, too.
     
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  20. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    SotA only "encourages" grinding so much as the pre-alpha doesn't have the mainland or most quests implemented yet, or some of the game systems. Because people have to level quickly between wipes and there isn't much to do, they're grinding a bit. That will change at launch.

    Systems were you max through an unattended macro while you sleep need to be avoided like the plague.
     
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