simple math :-)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stundorn, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    No casual friendly gameplay = no money from casual players

    I'd like to have some more casual friendly content.

    I'd like to contribute something to the world without having quadruple Millions of XP or even a single GM skill.

    I'd like to be important to the economy even if i only can craft +5 (2 enchants) gear with no MW until , because i exhaust on grinding materials

    ...and many many more what need to be more casual friendly and less grinding.

    And you want me to support the game with money, didnt you?!

    So simple math, if you only add content for highlevel and hardcore gamers and dont care for casuals you wont get money from casuals!
     
  2. Deana Beretta

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    counter point.
    How many casual players does it take to make up for 1 big spender who leaves because he's bored?
    I agree with you. I'd love to see more players (and more casual player content), but the things the developers always have to weigh is the potential of gaining new players who might contribute a little money, vs losing a current player which would result in a lot of money lost. Ideally, they have a big enough staff to create content on both ends of the spectrum, but I don't personally believe that they do.
    Given the choice, I believe the devs are more inclined to focus on the known quantity (existing players and how much money they contribute), vs putting time and effort into an unknown (how many new players could they attract by focusing on casual content).
     
  3. Daedwax

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    What exactly do you mean by Casual friendly content? We already have many low Tier Zones between 1-3, are you asking for them to make new content for players who haven't been playing enough or have chosen not to adventure enough to reach tier 5?

    You'd like to contribute something to the world. Please do, you can plan events, write a book, or make your own quest. You also don't need a single Gm to complete episode 1. If this isn't enough what would you like?

    You'd like to be important to the economy. Why? I'm guessing you mean you'd like to earn money with lower level items by selling them, for lower level items to sell we need lower level players who need them. For that to happen IMO we need to optimize the game and weed out many of the shortcomings which i believe is what they intend to do.

    casual friendly and less grinding. If they make materials easier to acquire all they've done is alter the exchange rate, if we used to buy 100 silver for 4k but now we get 10 per node, we will simply switch to 1000 for 4k this will obviously tank most of if not the entire weapons market. So what else would work for you?

    I think the Dbl XP weekends are nice for people who aren't able to play through the week, but I think rested experience would be better.

    Hope you find something Stundorn, Good Luck.
     
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  4. Vodalian

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    I'd like to contribute something to the world without having quadruple Millions of XP or even a single GM skill.
    I agree that the endless progression is a design problem. I know you want hard caps, and it might have been a good idea, but that ship sailed long ago. The soft cap of the death penalty doesn't work as I assume was intended, so right now we have diminishing returns but no cap. I would have liked some more restrictions based on specialization, but not sure exactly how it should be done.

    I'd like to be important to the economy even if i only can craft +5 (2 enchants) gear with no MW until , because i exhaust on grinding materials
    I believe this is impossible to create. Even if we had 10 000:s of players, I don't see how there could possibly be a market which functions in that way. However you can sell raw materials and consuming goods and be a part of the economy that way.
     
  5. Mugly Wumple

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    I am a casual player, playing fewer than 10 hrs a week. Fast GMing of skills is unrealistic. I've played since persistence, and have one GM - Acrobatics, because I dash everywhere. I feel that I contribute plenty:
    .the humorous conceit that Brigham and Forlorna Dune (my wife) are poor dorks from Oklahoma who have opened a diner serving swamp grub from all the stuff that crawls out of the swamp and onto their property. Cheap food for the masses.
    .the accomplishment of surviving a Tier 5 scene and being able to offer support to lower level players.
    .the slow accumulation of furniture recipes that are scattered throughout the world.
    .the creation of a furniture store (Biggie's Scratch and Dent) as a service for people to examine all the different pieces of furniture.

    Although it doesn't contribute to the community at large, we continue to explore and celebrate the defeat of newer, more difficult enemies. I doesn't matter to us that someone else can defeat them without effort. One does not need to be an uber-player to enjoy SotA.
     
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  6. ErikRulez

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    This.

    I'm probably active in the game about 10 hours, plus or minus a week. I can usually be found turning 1's into 0's out in this zone or that but I also craft most/all of my own equipment, mine, gather, do some decorating, exploring, farming, and occasionally I work on a quest or two when it suits me. I do whatever part of the game I want to when I get on to play. I don't feel like I need to be stronger or more renown than some other avatar out there to enjoy myself.
     
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  7. 2112Starman

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    Open up "looking for group", join a tears group.

    Set 1 skill to gain, in 1 hour you will have a gm in it (the 1 mill based skills).

    I have literally gained 50 GM's in the past 2 months with 2x XP while still working 50 hours a week and managing a family in RL.

    People who started 3 months ago have already passed me (adv 109) up to adv lvl 115.

    8 hours farming in tears groups and someone could do 90%+ of the content of this game easy.
     
  8. Metalton

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    *shrug* All a matter of perspective. I've seen plenty of twinked/power-leveled/bought-and-paid-for characters in many games.. who were handed "the best of the best", let everyone know they had it.. but we're clearly not the "best of the best", since they had no clue how to use what they had :)

    Their only true claim to fame was that they spent the least effort (and learning) to get where they are ;)

    As a casual player, I don't care how long it takes to get there, only that I do it all with skill, and style, along the way.. if I don't have time to put in big effort, I don't deserve big rewards ;)
     
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  9. Kain Darkmoor

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    This game is VERY casual friendly IMO. (Not counting PvP)

    Once your skills get to 80 player ability is FAR more important than your skill levels. It takes very little experience to get any skill to 80, outside of the main stat passives and a specialization. Like Starman said, go to Upper Tears for a few hours and you can can get like 20 or more skill to level 80. Also gear has a very small impact relative to other games where gear makes or breaks you, and decent gear is so cheap that crafters would practically pay YOU to take it off their hands.
     
  10. Adrian (Kung Fu Master)

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    I’ve been a casual player for a while due to full time job and family time. I’ve learned to make good cash flow in Agriculture. You can make good gold if you know what you are doing. I careless of the GM title or not catching up with other hard core players. Yet, I still managed to GM the slowest skill tree out there, Harvesting.

    So you can still enjoy the game passively but doing something else beside PVP or PVE. I called the path of peace. Might be one day we have a non violence virtue.

    Feel good to earn gold without blood stains on your weapons.
     
  11. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    It seems what the OP described is that current a player needs to spend X amount of time in order to accomplish Y and Z. He also stated he would like to reduce the X amount of time while still accomplish Y and Z. That might end up making the game to easy to those who can already spend larger X amount of time.

    Perhaps, it might be better to look at implementing in-game activities that are alternatives to the current day-to-day grinds. As @Adrian (Kung Fu Master) stated, he does not follow the day grind pattern, but rather does his own thing with agriculture and still able to have fun with the game.

    I hope to see more things to do that does not require hours of grinding, but to be able to sustain the fun factor in the game. If people enjoy grinding, then they should do so and spend as much time as they want. For those who don't, there should be more lightweight stuff to do without affecting the grinding style game play.

    Deeper game plays for agriculture, brewery, fishing, animal husbandry would be cool.
     
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  12. Barugon

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    The whole problem here is; you believe that in order to have a fun experience, you must have the highest skills and the best gear. Once you get past that then you can discover that the game is fun without grinding.

    I've kept it casual since launch. I'm now adventurer level 90 and I have 14 GMs. I have never felt that I had to go out and earn millions of experience or hoards of materials in order to have fun.
     
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  13. Stundorn

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    nah its a little bit more comlicated, but i'd of course like it more with an even playing field for everbody after some time, lets say completing the main story or reach a more or less casual friendly hard cap to have as many players possible to contribute in many different forms and ways, but of similar strength in any form of competetive and coooperative sandbox elements - which need to be imroved too.
    And with that the endgame is not grind as many skills as high as possible, but it can be something that let people interact more in many ways and in a "fair" environment.
    I think a lot of players who dont play would like it very much if we had these interdependencies of avatars who are not able to do some things by themself but rely on other players and their products or strength.
    Crafting an also PvE and of course PvP. For the MMORPG part it would imo be more interesting to a broader playerbase if we would have this, also because casuals like you and me then can contribute and play in and with the sandbox environment like everybody else. I dont know why i shouldnt be able to sell my crafts, only because i'm not able to produce +13 or higher stuff. Nobody buy's a +5 or even a +10 or furniture, everybody can make it by themself. Its ok that not everybody will do it and some like to buy from others, but if we have it more even for everybody and if we would have interdependencies it would revive the market and make it more interesting even for casuals.
    Harvester can be a profession or Refiner and everybody has only 1-2 professions.
    Same for PvE and PvP, think of you aren't able to beat specific Mobs or need allways a group to fight specific Mobs or another group of players and when more tactics and strategies are neccessary because not everynody can use heals or fire or whatever you like, because of these restrictions. I know some like it exactly because it is not like this, but i'd assume a lot more left because it's not like the sandbox they know from UO or other Games like SWG for example.
    Everybody then has his weaknesses and everybody has his strenght and everybody is able to contribute to the world, to the sandbox and is needed for something and not those with the most playing time and the strongest chars can rule the market, the pvp and make groupplay less challenging and interactive. It would lead to more interesting interactions imo and i think many players would like that more of what we have now, because it's attracting more casual players, because they can contribute and partake to or in a similar level.

    but ok, ok, i know i dont have a lot of spporters here who would like that. please dont let us discuss too much, i was just in the mood to spntaneously post it :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  14. Stundorn

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    and exactly that grind isnt fun or immerson and feels just like a neccessary evil only because i fully want to partake in content - and thats what i call a bad design because it locks of casuals and therefore no casuals play the game because they know that they cannot contribute and compete in this world against hardcore players.

    and thats not envy or effort=reward blabla, but just a bad game design what cost SotA players - IMHO !
     
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  15. Woodchuck

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    If I understood the OP’s sentiment, it’s that life is hard for the beginner and even “mid” level player. To these players it may seem an insurmountable task to catch up to the long-time veteran players to have any impact on the game, because the bar keeps getting higher and higher.

    There is truth to this. The game economy inflation is the problem. Prices keep getting higher and higher over time as wealth increases in the game. Think about what things cost you back in 2015 vs what the same items cost now.

    As a result, new players joining now just can’t cope. Prices are out of whack, and there’s tremendous pressure to spend real money or else quit the game, because nobody likes to grind for months to afford a decent quality set of armor.

    The same problem happened to UO and it is happening here. Unless this problem is solved the game is going to be harsher and harsher for new players.
     
  16. Gix

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    How many casuals have turned hardcore vs the other way around?

    Content that is casual friendly doesn't automatically make the content obsolete for hardcore players... but content designed for hardcore players ultimately cannot be casual friendly.

    I'm in the mindset that if you believe getting a skill to 80 doesn't take much experience or time, then you are not a casual and are in no position to state how casual friendly something is.

    I've been playing since persistence and I have only a small handful of skills that are above level 70. I have a single GM and maybe 1 or 2 skills above 80... and this is happening while my main activity is dungeon crawling and running around killing things (I JUST recently started experimenting with crafting).

    With my experience playing SotA, the game starts to open up when your character level is above the 50s; anything bellow that has you struggling finding a decent spot to adventure in between the plethora of insanely easy areas and impossible ones.

    The high price tags of housing/decorations and property taxes makes it hard for casuals to even consider the possibility of taking part in it.

    The extensive shopping list of ingredients necessary to craft a single item makes it hard for casuals to learn the system not to mention the process of crafting desired equipment super long. I JUST started crafting (after a year or so of hoarding materials in the bank) and the amount of ore needed to craft a full set of plate mail (or even chainmail) is insane.

    Roaming encounters and their "gotcha!" spawns of highly powerful monsters made this even less casual friendly.

    The whole problem here is that people with 14 GMs believe that this is what a typical casual player will have while, in reality, a casual player will have significantly less. Dismissing any issues anyone else might have.

    You can't claim that the game is casual friendly and say you don't need "l337 skills" or the best gear when a single player can completely destroy another wearing plate armour in roughly 3 seconds.

    So which is it? Character/skill levels, item power or both? At LEAST one of the two is true.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  17. Barugon

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    After two and a half years?

    If you're PvPing then you're not a casual player.
     
  18. Gix

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    Yes.

    I was doing the Path of the Oracle. Still not done by the way.

    Also, you can be a casual and still participate in PvP. I play, on average, 2 rounds of Fortnite per month.
     
  19. Barugon

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    And did you play regularly since persistence or did you get mad and quit for some of that time?
     
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  20. Stundorn

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    true there can be content for casuals without disturbing hardcore, but meaningfull content and not only T3-5 0815 stuff.
    true - and for example i cannot go into the rise or farm Mages in K'rul or whatever, i can barely survive in the Crag Foothills for example, but i dont know exactly atm, because i wasst there for 5 releases.
    But i experienced i was more nerfed than powered up since then :)
    Thats ok, but you feel just weak forever and grinding in highlevel groups and get pulled isn't fun. Sure i can get into a group what i cannot support really but get the XP - wow, what fun :(, that was a prolem as long as i play. You go with some higher levels and you feel you just get XP and all you did is more or less obsolete, no matter if you heal or try to make damage. thats just not fun.
    And of course a problem of the small playerbase. More players, more casuals, more to do for casuals, but to have an incentive for casuals to play an contribute there need to be more casual friendly content.
    simple math :)

    also true, if i have played further from Release to now i would have my innates at 80 i guess and now can go for my first GM.
    Thing is the way to get it is exhausting to casuals like me. And there are more like me who could be interested in this game.
    Because i'm casual i'm not bad at all in PvE or PvP or any other content. I am not Top 10 in other games, and that is not what i want, but i could do a lot more if i would be similar strong and we had more interdependecies and such.

    and yes it should be more about playerskill and less about time played, i also don't think the diminishing returns work well.
    I posted this picture very often, i dont see any diminshing returns.
    Maybe its nerfed, but that doesn't matter, if nerfed or not it is a benefit still and this benefit justified with effort= reward keeps more players away.
    Believe me a lot of players dont like that!!!

    [​IMG]
     
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