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Skills exp doesnt match adventure level

Discussion in 'Critical Issues (Blockers, Performance, Crashes)' started by DavidDC, Nov 18, 2018.

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  1. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I got told that when you were dieing before decay get removed you could loose exp but still have same adventure level. I compared my skill with Tazar and hes 6 level under me with tons more skill than me. So we came to the conclusion that every death i had before decay get removed, affected my skills in general and i lost that exp. Which make me level 125 with 115-120 worth of skill. This was a rules hidden to players as i NEVER heard this thing before and it make me freaking mad.

    How im suposed to calcul my exp total if my adventure level is wrong?
    Now that decay is gone, people will all have the exact same adv level than their exp in skills EXCEPT the old one that lose exp when dieing WITHOUT knowing what was really happening.

    I think we should get our exp back to match our level our make or match level to our exp, whatever it is, i want my level to match my real experience, not numbers that i can't base my calcul on.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  2. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Avatar

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    I always had the impression that there were 2 counters.

    1. was the overall xp earnt = level
    2. the amount of skill xp you got to spend, which went down on death, ergo if you died a heck of a lot, you could have a lot less skill than someone who didnt die as much.
     
  3. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Total exp of my skills is 895,146,470
    ALVL: 1 to 125 XP Needed: 1,356,890,888

    I have 500m difference from skill to my adventure level. Thats just ridiculous
     
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  4. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Avatar

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    that does sound like a lot of death- did you ever "unlearn"? cos you dont get all your skill back? (not that that amounts to 500m)
     
  5. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    If you use a scroll of unlearning its 100% return.
     
  6. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Avatar

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    I thought it was 80% unless advertised as a 100% thing in the notes.
     
  7. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    I have used it many times, often with my spec skills, its 100%, 3.6+ mil on level 80 spec, 24+ mil on gm spec.
     
  8. xadoor

    xadoor Avatar

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    It would be COOL to see things broken down:
    Total exp earned: 100
    Currently invested Skills: 95
    Lost to Death: 3
    Lost to unlearning: 2

    Not sure its worth their time given whats on their plate thou. Also not sure they can figure it out retro anymore.
     
  9. Sindariya

    Sindariya Avatar

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    With decay you lost different amount XP depending on skill lvl. Till lvl 40 you lost nothing. Till lvl 80 less than above 80.

    On top not every skill needs the same amount of xp to lvl. You sure you took that all into your calculation?
     
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  10. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Used a sheet to calculate all the exp for every skill, the difference is just to big to not be that
     
  11. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Its a blocker for the futur too because if we ever have adventure level based stuff and my skill is 500m off my real level then its clearly wrong. Thinking of PvP, even evl tourney match people with adventure level, if they make 120+ bracket and my lvl is 125 but having the exp of a 119, im clearly far out. 500m exp is alot, im sure not many have lost that much. This is why adventure level should match exp, even if its on the lost for us to loose 1-5 level, its for the good of everything that will come up in the futur. Dont wait people just forget about it.
     
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  12. Daxxe Diggler

    Daxxe Diggler Avatar

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    @devilcult - First off, this might be obvious, but I feel I have to ask... you tested this without any artifact or devotional buffs that raise your adventure level correct? Assuming that is the case, then I'll make my comment...

    I understand the frustration and the issue of your calculations not coming up correctly... but back when we had xp decay on death... I'm pretty sure we all knew that the xp lost was only from your pool and/or skills (if the pool wasn't large enough) and that Adventure level was NOT lowered accordingly. At least that's how I always thought it worked anyway. I never noticed my Adv decrease upon death (but to be fair, I didn't watch it constantly either, so I supposed it could have happened without me noticing).

    Is it fair that newer players who didn't have to deal with decay don't have this problem? Probably not. In your example where tourneys that use Adv. level as a bracket determiner... that can certainly be a disadvantage to those of us that had decay.

    To my knowledge, raising a skill does not take into consideration your adventure level, does it? What I mean is, if 2 people have the same skill at GM, it will take the same amount of xp to raise them both to 110, even if one player is Adv Lvl 100 and the other is 115. It's the Raw XP in the pool that matters when skilling up a skill, not our Adv. Lvl.

    So, the only real issue this may have caused is the case where you are grouped in PVP based on Adventure Level. If our Adv Lvls were adjusted down to match all the XP we lost to decay in the past... that would hurt those who are only interested in PVE. It will lower our overall health and focus pools, as well as adjust to-hit rates vs. monsters.

    My point here is, I see your issue and agree it can be a concern. But I would NOT like the solution to be to lower my Adv. Lvl to match the decay I lost. :( Now, if Port would like to give us back all the lost XP we ever lost to decay before... I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. ;)
     
  13. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I never saw that rule anywhere. Even asked people recently to point me to this information, where is it?


    I lost around 450m exp (not calculating skill that are green a lil over the actual level, which mean more) and yes i dont use any warlock chain or buff, my base adv level is 125. With all this counted, i would lose exactly 4 adv level if it were adjusted. That mean around 20 hp and 20 focus, i dont think anyone has lost as much as i did because i played everyday and died 3 time (and more even before the 3 time a day was in) mostly. So my guess is people would loose about 1-5 adv lvl at top, mostly in the 1-2. I dont think this is major decrease in a character. And giving back all the exp would just be too much. Im sure they could do it to lower adv level to current exp and not many would even notice. Id rather get fixed than stay like this and more stuff break later when pvp become a thing in sota.
     
  14. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Another thing they could do, is just add an extra parameter with "Exp level" that calculated all skills level together. That way we dont touch adventure level, we dont touch exp, and everyone is happy and that variable can be used in the futur for pvp events. (This would make no sense to new player seeing twice their same level tought.) But that could fix us old player.
     
  15. liz_the_wiz

    liz_the_wiz Avatar

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    Im pretty sure in one of the tech talks @Chris explained this. Problem is it is hard not to feel miffed when people starting now dont have the same problems/limitations we did going through this the hard way.

    Certainly it was incredlby strongly implied that your skills earnt xp from your pool (as if your pool was like 1000 then your skills barely moved, if you have like 1M+ they go up quick), and that if you set them to "-" if you died they could go down, if you set them to maintain /improve they ate your pool and if you didnt have enough pool you went down.. Althoguh I maybe wrong I thought the skills were covered in the player handbook.. havent looked for a while.

    I think we're only down to a debate if adv level was effected by death, and only @Chris I guess can truly answer that. Now we dont have xp loss on death we cant use a save file on offline to find out
     
  16. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Thisis why you level is lower, you did not lose any levels it was just when you lost exp fromdedcay your level progression was hindered. So you might have stayed at level 100 longer than Taz was because you bounced Up and Down between the exp point marks that where 100 - 101 where as Taz pretty constantly just climbed.

    There is no need to adjust anything - Decay is over, now you will gain steadily, sure you are now behind a little and will prob never catch up.

    Once Taz has all his GMs he might slow down so you can catch him.

    In the end you are trying to compare an apple to a rock.
     
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  17. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    There is no way to catch up as adventure level will just keep going with the exp im getting. The difference will always be there and taz can go as high as he want i dont care, i pointed him because thats what made me realise the huge difference in level and exp total of skills.
     
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  18. Daxxe Diggler

    Daxxe Diggler Avatar

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    @Chris made a post about how decay works way back when it was introduced. Let me see if I can find it...

    Ah yes, here it is.

    I'll copy/paste the important part so you don't have to jump around...
    Now, I'll admit that he doesn't come right out and say whether or not decay reduced your adventure level... he basically just explained that decay removes experience from skills you have trained up. But that's all he says it does. It removes skill points that you already spent in your skills that you have trained.

    If you had points in your pool and your skills were set to maintain... they wouldn't even get lowered... it would instead remove the skill points in your pool and leave the skills alone. If you didn't have enough to cover the decay penalty though, it would lower each skill appropriately.

    Nothing in there says that your Adventure level is affected by the penalty. It's a separate counter altogether of the total XP you have gained. I think that's why it was called Skill Decay and not XP Decay. The Adventure level was never supposed to be affected by decay as far as I know and understood from day 1.
     
  19. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Lemme copy paste you the important part too: Chris, Oct 27, 2016

    Do i have to go read every post as a player to get information what is in and what is not especially when this information is about 3 year old ? Please don't be ridiculous.
     
  20. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I also used a cheat to calculate all my exp, then compared it to my adventure level required exp.
    The cheat tell me i have 950m exp, and to get to level 125 i need around 1.4m exp, which is the nearly 500m difference im talking about. Did i do math error? Probably. 500m difference? Impossible.

    The way i understand it, when you lost experience it also affected adventure exp because you couldnt lose any level. So if i just gain a new level but die 50 time, that adventure level stay the same and exp goes down with the skills.
    There is a gap, i proved it, and there is nothing else to say. Even Mac which know alot of stuff says the same thing as i am saying. Do you want a screen of every single skill i have so you can check yourself?
     
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