So I know the answer to increase PvP population -

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Xkhan, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:53 AM.

  1. Ahuaeynjgkxs

    Ahuaeynjgkxs Avatar

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    Its a design problem because often the risk does not match the reward. As I've clearly explained... or you'd probably say "oh well I risk losing my precious sword but I made enough to buy 4 while pvping". Don't tell me you can't be logical like that :p that would not be a solution :p

    losing something ? I'm ok with losing everything ! I die my stuff drops on the ground, it does not magically fly back with my ghost. It's a RPG...

    Back in UO, I had over 100 spare sets of armor, chests filled to the brim with each reageants and potion kegs... it would take me 2 minutes top chrono to get back to PvP. I got all those ressources while PvPing...

    Thats because of a health economy and a healthy risk vs reward, the risk when you were a murderer and killed people for loot was 15% of your entire stats and skills.

    It would take months and months to get back to the game in that case.

    But my 12 million gold bounty was worth it, I died once, made about 2500 reported (bountied) kills :p

    And my death wasn't even legit people used a bug by cramming invised pets in a scene and I got lagged out and killed by 300 angry people.

    That was another reward, I was a legend, and I had MAD fun lol :)

    That being said, I'm not against Arena style pvp with no loss... could have both, but the essence of old school pvp is risk vs reward :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018 at 5:02 PM
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  2. oplek

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    Honestly, they're probably as likely to do this as they are to switch over to full-loot PVP.
     
  3. eli

    eli Avatar

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    [​IMG]

    Not always.

    Yes it is risk vs reward, but if you are adv level 110, your risk of dying to a random PK is far lower than if you're adv level 80. So at a higher level, you are able to afford this risk much easier. It's a negative feedback loop like capitalism where the rich get richer.

    Personally, I just want to PvP and improve. so if that means it costs me $5 to die sometimes, I guess I will reluctantly pay it... out of my telethon budget.

    I liked the UO system with silver (separate currency) awarded for players with >5 k-d difference, or even more the wow system with honor awarded proportionally based upon the relative levels of the two people involved.

    The current system rewards res-killers and gankers, and does not really affect negatively or positively people who want to simply pvp.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 7:52 AM
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  4. Quenton

    Quenton Avatar

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    The time wasted in pvp is too high of a price to get into pvp. Let alone losing items or having to spend an additional 5 minutes of adventuring just to break even (subtracting time wasted on breaking even).
     
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  5. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    The answer to me is hard caps, tree limitations, no deck switching while in combat, less powerfull gear, Justice/Moral/Virtue System...
     
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  6. Vodalian

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    One problem I see is that pvp right now is all or nothing. Either kill with no consequences or be fully protected by the Oracle. I play a fair bit in pvp scenes for the thrill and the variety, but I don't flag pvp because I don't want to look over my shoulder at all times. If there were active guards in/near towns and a virtue system I would like it much better.

    This is not only an issue about risk/reward, it's also about realism and immersion. The no rules pvp feels like a game within the game. It's more like the feeling of playing an FPS, because it's disconnected from the rest of the SOTA world. That's why I want mechanics with rules and consequences. Because that's how a society works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 3:13 AM
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  7. Xkhan

    Xkhan Avatar

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    I think what they have now would work - truly - and I think it would add another element which almost everyone would like. I just know that they will never have the population as long as there is loss of gear...won't happen. I know the purists would hate it but they are going to have to give in IF they actually want people to kill.

    The pvp people now
    dont care about losing anything but I do...I don't want to lose anything and I have to think I am in the majority as there is such small population doing pvp.

    The purists are going to have to bend imo...and the developers will have to take a hard look at what will drive people to the Oracle amiright...
     
  8. Toadster

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    This is not losing anything... I never cared about dying in old school UO PVP because of this, everything was easy to get and I had a surpluss of everything, so I never truly lost anything I cared about. Now change that full loot to well 1000 hours gathering resources so you could give it to a friend to break 99% of those resources into scrap and make you one piece of armor with halfway decent random stats. Toward the end of my playing UO with jnsurance it was even worse, no risk at all except to stuff I had too much off. The only risk was running out of a dungeon with a +120 Margery scroll with an entire guild of people chasing me. But even then, if I got it out it was mine, if I didn’t it was never mine in the first place, I jumped their spawn took a few pop shots at the boss and got a lucky drop.

    The balance of what people risk in PVP and all the complications of what costs what for ransom kills it for me. I would enjoy being able to just jump in and PVP when I am bored but the learning curve just on what to carry to balance risk, cost of random random stacks, and having the prep time just to PVP is horrible game mechanics.
     
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  9. Malimn

    Malimn Avatar

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    There should be NO rewards for PVP that would not be available NON-PVP.
     
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  10. Kpopgurl

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    Then there is no PVP in a sandbox world. We determined already that it will always have PVP. So yeah that ship has sailed.

    They have to decide what they want. Be like UO and get more people interested. Or stay deco simulation with shallow gameplay and close service sooner or later ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 4:06 PM
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  11. eli

    eli Avatar

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    OK.... wake me up when we can get experience, crafting materials, gold, artifacts, etc. from PVP... Then you will have your imagined equality.

    these are clearly separate things, and there's no problem with them having different incentives.

    By the way:

    literally EVERYTHING in this game is and would be available NON-PVP.

    everything is trade-able, and PVM is the most viable means to afford everything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 10:07 AM
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  12. Elrond

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    Why not ? o_O
     
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  13. Ahuaeynjgkxs

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    Because, aliens.
     
  14. Elrond

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    They like PVP too.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. kaeshiva

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    Eh, the 'old' ransom system I already deemed too much hassle / too much potential gold loss to bother flagging, and now its been "improved." Dying and getting set back because someone who is better levelled/geared/built for pvp decides to snipe me while I'm engaged with monsters has no appeal whatsoever to me.

    It would be different if there were some sort of objectives / team play, but from what I've seen its almost always a stealthed ganker or a posse picking off single targets since PvP has no real direction. The trick is to add incentives to PvP that only benefit PvP gameplay - such as special materials that add pvp-focused mods to gear, for example. Dragging more PvE'rs into the mix or thrusting PvP on people who are just trying to explore or do their quests (or earn a bit more xp?) is not going to make PvP better. PvP needs to have its own reward and its own incentive to get people into PvP zones who are actually looking to PvP not trying to achieve PvE objectives.
     
  16. econner

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    1. No death penalty
    2. PvP skill tree that uses separate experience gained from PvP activities
    3. xp from killing the same opponent drops sharply if deaths are too close together
    4. New scenarios. Capture building/tower, Defend Building Tower, Capture the something (flag) in a dungeon/overland setting, See which side can collect the most of 100 gust balls in a timed match (get ready physics engine), ect... ( no gd escort please)
    5. Player usable siege weapons and breakable walls
    6. Factions to join for a campaign to capture and hold the most assets/towers/keeps over a certain time period.
    7. ....
     
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  17. Nelzie

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    All of that is highly unappealing to me.

    I would prefer that they have set AL level ranges that would limit a higher level character from straight up attacking a much lower level and obviously easily slaughtered toon.

    Let AL 10 to 20's PvP with one another, 21 to 30's and so on and so forth.

    Sure, a lower level guy can run up and attack a much higher level player, but... that's a choice at that point.
     
  18. Stundorn

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    Too artificial construct to me.
    A PvP Sandbox is something different.
    A pvp sandbox need everybody be able to make a contribution after some weeks/ Months playing and "put their effort on it"
    PvP Sandbox needs Caps and less powerfull gear and sure this gear need to be lootable.
    The game lacks tons of stuff to make it even a worthwhile MMORPG.
    It is just a SP grindgame with MP option not worth to use it beside socializing.
    Welcome to Second SotA Live.
     
  19. Toadster

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    Because PVP should be good enough to stand on its own. People should want to PVP because it is fun, not because it gives them more XP or it is the only way to get X rare object. Because of these rediculous carrots, you get people flagging for the wrong reason and then they come in here whining about how someone ganked them, their were killed by someone too high level, or people that are geared for PvP fight better than me. If you took away all the Carots, and people flagged because they just wanted to fight then you could really balance PVP.

    UO had carrots in Felluca but I never really went for the power scrolls or the extra resources, don’t get me wrong walking out with a power scroll was nice. But I went for the battle either the thrill of escaping a gank squad with ill gotten gains, or the massive 20 on 20 champ spawn raids. It was amazing fun and wether I came away with anything didn’t really matter because it was a blast.

    Take away the carrots of resources and drops to try and get people into PVP, take away all these complex ransom rules and just put in some reasons to fight and fight big. PRT Town control and raids and some other interesting mechanics that do not impede straight PVE gameplay and lets have some real fun with what this game can do. Stop trying to over complicate and control it and just try to balance it as much as possible.
     
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  20. Elrond

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    So you dont want rewards for PVP ... but you want ..
    without any rewards ?

    What would be the point of fighting then if you dont gain anything ?