So why was my crest deleted?

Discussion in 'The College of Arms' started by Razimus, Aug 11, 2014.

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  1. Razimus

    Razimus Avatar

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    Simple question, it fell within the rules, and it was deleted.
    What's up with that? And why do I feel like walking on eggshells
    when even posting in this forum? Makes me not even want to
    play this game when it comes out.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Deliverence

    Deliverence Avatar

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    Mine was also deleted and I had to modify a number of things to try and bring this into line with the college requirements and am waiting on confirmation if the new changes will be accepted.
    I suspect yours probably has suffered the same fate as mine, so I'm sure someone from the college will get back to you soon on this.
     
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  3. Razimus

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    Nope, mine was approved and accepted I have a thread to prove it...

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...shed-my-coat-of-arms-how-do-i-submit-it.9157/

    If I'm forced to use the lego skull I might as well log in with the name "User" "Dude" or "Avatar" or "Insert Name Here" because the custom crest
    is one of the main reasons I was motivated to pledge for such a high amount, I'm not rich, I'm actually unemployed, I was sold on submitting my
    custom crest...

    [​IMG]

    I wasn't sold on having a mickey mouse crest like this...

    [​IMG]

    It's pretty clear there are a bunch of people not deleted, I wonder why, maybe because their all friends? Even dupes weren't
    deleted...

    [​IMG]

    And the guy that approved of my crest and added my crest deleted it... the guy that said I had his vote...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    They've posted in lots of places that the website is broken and the guy that hosts it has been missing for months.
    Nothing is up with that, other than the website being broken.
    Everybody's registered arms are stored in a couple of different places that aren't public.

    They're working on a solution.
     
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  5. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    So, the first gallery you post there is from Blazonforge, and it's the gallery of what people have drawn, not a gallery of what has been approved.

    The second site you show there is the broken one.
     
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  6. Razimus

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    Ok thanks for the reply, I just was a bit discouraged, I just think there will be a lot of Death Magic fans that
    will want some variety in skulls and would enjoy a darker more realistic one and I said they could add it to
    the database. Thanks.
     
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  7. Razimus

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    Off the subject but I searched for lego skull shields and found this, which I find to be way better than the cartoon one above! heh.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    I actually like the one you drew.
     
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  9. Gaelis

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    Maybe the best time to thank you once more for your great work, for spending lot of time without beeing payed for, because you enjoy working with (our) CoAs even it is sometimes not easy to handle....
    Thank you *curtsys*
     
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  10. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Thank you for the kind words. I get a little emotional, myself, and fly off the handle. So, I can hardly hold it against others.
     
  11. Trenyc

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    Sorry for the confusion, Razimus. Nothing has been deleted. As Frank said, we've lost access to the old gallery and are working on finding a new solution. We'll update everyone when we've found a good one. :)

    It is worth noting that your coat of arms hasn't been approved yet, though. There was some talk of it too strongly resembling a pirate flag (which is not appropriate as a form of heraldry), and, on an unrelated note, the crossbones and skull charges are too detailed, using shading to achieve a 3D effect that doesn't fit with heraldic style. The latter point would not affect registration of your blazon (the verbal description of your CoA), but the former point would, as if our sovereigns decide that pirate flags are no-go, we'll need to find an alternative. Has anyone talked to you about either of these possible issues?

    I'm sorry for the confusion with this. I'll get an answer for you, one way or the other. :)
     
  12. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    This seems like a good time to remind everyone that I resigned from the College a couple of months ago.
     
  13. Ronan

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    Razimus,
    The arms you wish to use...skull, crossed bones, hourglass...was never "officially" approved. The college folks were trying to remove some of the shading effects on the overall design, but you wished to keep them in.

    Secondly, what Trenyc is saying about pirates and heraldry...around about the 1680's pirates started using the images on flags. A bit late for our time frame, BUT...undertakers in Germany and France used a skull and crossed bones design much earlier. So the usage is fine.

    Understand the main issue is the amount of shading detail. I know you reduced it already, yet some feel it is not enough.

    I also do not like the "cartoon" skull you showed, but please note it is taken directly from the sigils. Give the college some more time to think on this. I know that's asking a lot! It's been forever already. We still have many, many moons to watch before the game goes live.

    (and Frank will always be with the college in spirit)
     
  14. Bubonic

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    This makes me curious. If the official rules of heraldry were followed, why was his image disallowed just because college members didn't like his shading? Does the college really disallow valid designs just because of personal preference?
     
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  15. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    There is a question about whether shading is consistent with the established style.
     
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  16. Joviex

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    I think this is a prime example of what Bubonic and I were talking about in chat last week.

    There seems to be a good amount of "subjective" judgement. Otherwise, why not add a better skull?

    And along those lines:

    We are NOT on Earth, correct?
    Who is to say that the rules of heraldry must be 100% followed?
    Shouldnt we at least be attempting to make them BETTER for a new world?

    Once again, a subjective ruling on someone's creation, of which I feel is:

    A) smartly done given the system to work within
    B) creative and fitting to his theme

    This is the first, and foremost, problem I've had with the idea since the start.

    I like the idea of making a system, quick to give people multitudes of options (downloaded content generated on the fly), just not an overbearing set of rules from a world we are not inhabiting.

    Iterate, Innovate, Invent.

    File that under the subjective category.
     
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  17. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Since this touches on something that contributed to me resigning, I think I'll try to address these concerns.

    In the beginning, we were told that we would have a limited number of charges that were allowed, so adding a forward facing skull when we already had a forward facing skull seemed like it would take up space that would be better used for another object.

    We also thought we were unable to do shading because of the way the builder assembled the devices, but as it turns out, maybe that's not correct.

    Then we have the issue of style.
    We had a committee of five people who would vote on accepting or rejecting submissions.

    There was a block of voters that were, I felt, too restrictive, and that was a major factor in my resignation.

    Additionally, when we did eventually try to loosen up the rules, the public would beat us up for changing the rules.

    More rule changes are coming, but they will be to loosen thing up.
    However, there are still hurdles that need to be worked through.
     
  18. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.
    Maybe the community should vote on who gets to represent their vote. Just a thought.
     
  19. Knight Grant MacGregor

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    I think the one, single most important aspect, is that we are registering the blazon of your coat of arms, and not any specific imagery. There are many reasons for this:
    1. Reading the blazon, any herald should be able to reproduce a nearly identical version of the coat of arms. This ensures a general understanding of the arms.
    2. Designing a coat of arms requires it to be blazonable to be valid, in order to support item 1), prevent abstract art, and provide understanding, identity, and meaning to coats of arms.
    3. To allow imagery to be refined and improved down the road. Many of the images we are using now are not necessarily in-line with the style of the game. As the game's style becomes more clear, we can adapt the imagery to better fit in the game.
    There are only a limited set of players that are allowed to register the exact imagery they want (I believe Lord and upwards?), for them we will be designing custom imagery. All others will use the public charges to create UNIQUE devices. The promise for creating your coats of arms was for the unique arrangement of the public charges on your device, and not allowing everyone to submit unique charges.
     
  20. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Dukes and Lords of the Manor. Maybe just Founder Dukes and Lords of the Manor.
     
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