Sold off and letting go.

Can't argue with that...

 

This thread goes more and more off topic

 

Feel free to us back on track.

 

It's not just about content though. Can you honestly tell me with the combat system, the way the world is now being built (with or without POTs), and the actual game with it's meticulous crafting system that it's going to fun playing Single-Player Offline? There's a lot more to a single-player game than just content. When I play Pillars of Eternity or other single-player RPGs, the game system is just as important as the story. And right now SOTA's game system works entirely in favor of the MMO part of the game.

From what I understand, in single-player offline the NPC towns are going to be mostly empty. A whole bunch of ghost towns. That doesn't make for a good single-player game. The combat system is fine for PVE and PVP in an MMO but for a single-player game? I'm not convinced. The crafting system and how the single-player economy is going to work? Who knows! But it seems like crafting will be a giant chore in single-player mode.

I get that they have to make the systems first but coming from a single-player perspective....SoTA right now will feel like you are playing an MMO by yourself rather than a single-player game that you can also play with others.

I backed for the single-player game but I've given up hope on that. I just hope the MMO part of the game is fun.

R23 is the best release to date for the MMO part of the game. But if your hope is for a great single-player game then R23 isn't a step in the right direction.

 

Not that there was a topic for discussion in the first place.

After the /wave "I'm out" the subject is done. Anything else is a sub topic.

 

I can honestly say it's far too soon to try to start judging offline play. When they've been telling us for so long now they won't be revealing the story for as long as possible.. and that offline testing won't give them much information to work with. These guys are old pros. They've proven themselves time and again. That's why a lot of us are here.

I think it's sad that some people are choosing to judge and give up on offline because the professional game developers aren't doing things in the order they think it should be done. I want to play offline just as much as anyone. But I refuse to be discouraged by other people's expectations of something they haven't seen yet and their distrust of Portalarium to deliver the final product that isn't even feature complete yet..

Who says?

Um.. single player IS PvE.. So if the PvE combat is fine..

 

I certainly appreciate all of that too. I would like to see a great single player game ... too. I think we all do. That is what makes the community great. Everyone is pulling for a total win here, not a partial win.

I just do not see a need to personally panic over things not being quite the way I might hope yet. Why? Two reasons: Reason 1) Pre-alpha means building systems. Alpha means building content further. Beta means polishing and balance, which hopefully doesn't take long. Right now we remain in pre-alpha. I think many of these single-player requests are coming because even RG himself said he was looking forward to playing single. Reason 2) We have a tremendously talented development team working for us, and so far that team has done a fantastic job making progress, listening to the community, and adapting as they learn. All we need to do is trust that this will continue.

We all have a choice to make as early pledgers in a pre-alpha crowd-funded game. We either trust that RG and the great folks at Portalarium are going to build a great game we hope for, or we don't. For those who don't have that trust or cannot stomach the sausage-making process of game development, leaving probably is best. I hope you come back later so we can adventure together in game. For those who do trust, it is really cool to see it being built month by month. I really appreciate the opportunity to see the wizards behind the curtain at work. Its really cool.

 

Single Player is NOT PvE and trying to approach a single-player game like it's just PvE will lead to a bad single-player game. A good single-player game tries to create engaging combat scenarios. The few MMOs who have single-player mode are just PvE and they are boring and dull as heck. Heck, it's fine for a single-player game to have OP spells and stuff. It's not fine for a multi-player game to have OP spells and such because PvP requires balance. So balancing a single-player game is different than balancing a multi-player game and it takes a lot of time to properly balance both...and yet they are spending time only balancing the MMO part of the game.

It's not about doing things in the order that they should be done. It's just that the combat works for MMOs but it's not going to work as well for single-player offline. The whole "offline testing won't give them much information to work with"...I'm afraid that's wrong now. It might have made sense ten releases ago but right now the feedback they are getting is completely from the MMO side. How can you make a good single-player game if all the data you get is about the MMO side?

It's not about revealing the story. Other single-player games can have pre-alphas, alphas, and betas without ruining the story and still get important feedback. I have faith that Portalarium will build an awesome MMO. And as an MMO player, you should be happy. But don't patronize the single-player crowd.

And yet the single-player community is by-and-large starting or has given up. Which makes sense. When we can't even test and give feedback on Single-Player Offline, they are only really allowing feedback to come from the MMO part of the game. Sure we can talk about what we'd like single-player to do...but when the only people who can really give feedback are the MMO players because that's the part of the game is open, the more the development takes the game to the MMO side.

Yeah, you feel like the game devs are listening to you because you see how your feedback changes the game.

 

We must have different definitions of PvE.. Even scripted encounters are PvE.. and generally it's not fine to have overpowered spells. Even in single player it's not going to be fun if there's never a challenge.

Now we're having a fundamental disagreement here. Game balance of both should be relatively equal. In terms of spell & skill power, weapons and armor.. you get the MMO balance right and Offline will follow suit.

Not finding a compelling argument here. What I'm hearing is.. you believe it's not going to work.. but why? Where's the case? So far most of my combat experience.. well pretty much ALL of it.. has been solo and so far it just keeps improving. I see no evidence that it won't work in offline single player.

Excuse me but I'll be playing both. Please don't lump me into just one or the other.

 

Then that's an area where PvE needs to be improved on. Just because we've had bad PvE in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better.

 

A lot of single-player games have OP spells and have been successful without making it that much easier? It's not about the challenge. Yes, if a spell is so OP that it removes the challenge then that would need to be fixed. But like the balance doesn't need to be perfect. A spell is allowed to be more powerful than another spell is what I'm saying. A lot of MMO balance isn't about PvE balance but PvP balance.

And yes I do have a different definition of PvE in a single-player game than in an MMO. I disagree that getting the MMO balance right and Offline will follow suit based on other MMO games that have a single-player option.

If you'll be playing both, why wouldn't you want to go into Single-Player Offline and thus give your feedback on how it works in that part of the game?

Yeah, the PvE in SOTA really needs a lot of work.

 

Pro Tip: No one likes a self-appointed forum police officer.

 

Have to agree with Sir Cabirus on this one.

 

OK, bye.

No one is forcing you to hang around and read all this off-topic stuff.

 

We are not expecting a single Player offline PVE played as an RPG, we expect to have companions so you saying your solo combat experiences are good, proves, an Ultima RPG with companions is not something we should expect.

And after reading the last 2 pages discussing EA dropping things from games appears to me like the SP RPG offline players should look forward to some disappointments.

 

The fact they they are allowing offline at all is amazing. Add in that they are adding in features that help make offline playable is even more amazing.

2 reasons to allow offline.

1: give it to your friends and get them hooked so they play online.
2: some time we don't have access to the internet but would still like to play.

I'm not saying offline should be chopped liver but SPO is going to be the way to play. Even if you never plan on playing multiplayer.

 

It can't work like that. Character will have to be stored on a central server or you will be able to tweak it. You are going to have two separate characters one for online and one for offline

 

Agreed. It's also the point where the vision starts showing it's true form. I like it (and many others do) but some people's expectations are going to be dashed. This point is always reached by any promising game at some stage alas.

 

Not sure where you got the idea that I was saying anything different than what you just said.

Offline characters can never go online. Online characters can be copied to offline but that copy will never go online.

 

It the acronyms SPO. Maybe we should make it SPOn and SPOff so it's easier to keep track of which one is being talked about