SotA has to make a tough decision... GO FOR IT!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Isaiah, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. Phredicon

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    Can we get a moratorium on that? If people want something a certain way lets say WHY we want it that way instead of just saying "lets remake a 15yr old game!!!!!"

    In case the "just like UO!" people aren't aware, UO has a *BAD* rep among a lot of people who never played it, and they will not even consider trying something that is touted as similar, much less "just like".
     
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  2. Isaiah

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    Actually that's a great point @Vjek! Make those resources harder for non-PvP players. That may in fact be totally acceptable. However I'm talking about something riskier than just doing that. Many people might opt for the non-pvp "more diffficult" way to obtain these materials than to do the PvP mode because of the fact there will be less risk bringing those resources home.

    However I'm asking here that the devs take the full risk of making those areas PvP zones. I belive it would cause more people to take the risk of playing PvP full time if they have certain areas that provide them inscentive to dip their toe into the water.

    However having a PvP flag on all the time would likely be less dangerous than one of those PvP areas because good PKs would know that the newcomer might be more likely to show up there in that spot than waiting outside of towns for people to turn the flag on. No matter what those resources should have the same risk for everybody otherwise we may see legitimate PvPers switching off PvP just to obtain that resource too. This is why the PvP flag must be hard to turn off. It should keep you in PvP for the rest of the day. I see the PvP flag as playing the real world similarly to what it was in back in UO before Trammel. There needs to be inscentive for people to play that experience otherwise PvP will only be combatants all the time. They may have to take the risk of making some non-pvpers a little uncomfortable to please the community as a whole. That might sound like strange logic to some, but I believe it's sound logic.
     
  3. LoneStranger

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    I was under the impression, at least based on what I remember them saying in some hangout, was that the resources available only via PvP would be beneficial only to PvPers. I translated that as the end product through crafting (or some other method) was only useful to PvPers. The question then is 'Are PvPers the only ones who can refine the resources, or do potentially non-PvP crafters have some part to play?'
     
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  4. Isaiah

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    @LoneStranger I would hope that all resources and all items are equally valuable to all players. I would rather see no difference between PvPers and NonPvPers. Most games break those groups up and even have different items for them. I'm hoping SotA is ONE world, and we have the choice of how we experience it. I fully support people who want to perminantly play non-pvp, but I view the PvP switch as turning on the "full feature" of the game world (which is a risky and dangerous place sometimes).

    However I think there should be some minimum combat skill level nessisary to flag for PvP without getting the newbie notification. If your combat skills are really weak it should basically tell you that "you are completely undefended, and you might consider getting a group of friends to travel with etc. etc.".
     
  5. vjek

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    Well those are completely different issues to solve, and I don't want to derail the thread. Mode Jumping, Zone Camping, etc, are possible to fix, but the options I've offered in the past people have declined, so no point in re-hashing that, for me.

    Also, it is a publicly stated design goal that PvP enabled players will see only other PvP enabled players, hence everyone in that mode is a combatant. Unfortunately, given the realities of the persistent multi-player online genre breadth and depth, making non-pvp'ers even "a little uncomfortable" translates into: SotA Fail. :eek:

    Only point I'll offer regarding "bringing those resources home" is that fast travel will be, according to Chris, in the game.. so "bringing them home" means casting Recall or Gate. Unless a bunch of really ham-fisted techniques are used. Also, "outside of town" seems to be the overland map, given what's been shown to date.
     
  6. Isaiah

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    I think it translates into SotA greatness if they take the risk. You can still play without opening up to PvP, but to reach every location you have to be open to the risk. I think the terms PvP and non-pvp should disapear tottally. The PvP flag should be labled advanced mode or high risk mode or something like that to change the way it is percieved. PvP and non-PvP already brings with it years of history and different definitions to everybody.

    I think when they are ready the devs should define an SotA's interplayer risk modes with their own term and their own definition so we all know what we are talking about. PvP and non-PvP have too many different definitions. And in the definition it would even sound better if they say one mode has player vs player interactions they should spell it out because even the abriviations have too much history.
     
  7. InsaneMembrane

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    "RPers" will never be open to allowing PvP into their world or allowing PvP only areas into theirs which they can't get to unless PvP.

    No, this will be handled by asking the player to enter into a more dangerous magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) setting via questing or the "RPers" will just slide The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) down to Trammel Mode.
     
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  8. Arkhan

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    Unfortunately, we are all going to have Portalarium's game imposed upon us, no matter how we feel about it.

    If things are anything like how the PreKS and KS went, there is the high chance that UO 2.0 advocates will not get what they want.
     
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  9. Devoid

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    This.
     
  10. Arkhan

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    Though, really, I don't think its unfortunate. It's a great thing. I trust their judgement, lol.
     
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  11. Vyrin

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    @Bowen - my great appreciation for reiterating the idea that players can't be so easily boxed into categories. It needs to be said over and over and over again til people get it.

    I don't share the opinion of vjek that PvP only areas are doomed to failure because it's been tried in other games. We've had a lot of discussions about how PvP can be supressed in some areas to allow players to have a greater security in some regions, not that these discussions were in any way a solution. Yet, anytime someone says "it can't be done" so that there is a lively PvP but also a REALISTIC story-driven and consequence-laden PvP is just ramping up the motivation for the next-gen solution.
     
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  12. BillRoy

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    The same with any game you play, the same if we were playing Call of Duty or WoW.
    The only unfortunate thing is right now there is nothing to do but speculate on potential problems and invent all kinds of unreasonable details and and unrealistic fantasies you want implimented .

    That and play the Forum game.
     
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  13. Devoid

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    Which can be fun and moderately entertaining, if you're in the right frame of mind for it, or...
    ... totally lack a mind!
     
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  14. Jonathon.Doran

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    I have little interest in PvP. I would probably be more likely to experiment with it if I didn't think it had long-term consequences. I would also be more willing to try it if I were going up against friends. Lacking that, I'll probably just turn it off and avoid the griefers even if it means that I miss out on fights I would otherwise enjoy.

    I tend to enjoy cooperation more than competition.

    My fondest memories of EQ were figuring out how to beat new raids with my guild. We would often struggle, and fail over and over again. But in the end we came up with something that worked. (There weren't many of these, but they stand out in my mind).
     
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  15. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Well.. I call them non-PvPers. Call them what they are. PKs, PvPers, non-PvPers, anti-PK whatever term is more apt.
     
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  16. Isaiah

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    I'm hoping for a new term all together. Let's drop the whole PvP vs non-pvp issue by having SotA define thier version of open world combat vs having a more mellow experience that doesn't involve player verses player combat.

    I think if they have their own definition it keeps the idea new, because it is new. Selective multiplayer allows for more options. An option that allows for players to attack other players is a higher risk real world type experience. however some may just want to look for treasure and not be stressed out with the threat of very inteligent foes that are on equal footing as them to fight against. That's the real issue there.
     
  17. Jonathon.Doran

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    I don't think the objections are necessarily against "intelligent foes that are on equal footing". In my case it is more about avoiding people who would prevent me from enjoying the game. My example of a raid mob illustrates that: There is no way that a mob requiring 50+ people to take down is on equal footing with me. But it isn't acting without honor, which is how I see the difference. Replace that mob with a well-behaved human of equal strength (to the hypothetical raid mob) and we likely have a better experience. Even if our raid gets wiped more often than not.

    However my experience has been that I am more likely to run into someone who will cheat or otherwise cause me to swear off such encounters.

    I don't see any way for this to work. Either I have to put up with these #%#%^, or I have a way to ignore them. There have been reasonable objections to such filtering. So we are at an impasse.
     
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  18. Owain

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    We have been told that everything is subject to change, and nothing is written in stone. If they promised PvP zones, then I think they should rethink that promise, because I don't think it is necessary.
    If people don't want to PvP, throwing carrots at them won't be a sufficient incentive. It's like the 'all volunteer force' in the US Military. Members of the Armed Forces want to be sure that everyone in uniform is there because they WANT to be there. Conscripts do not make the best soldiers.

    As a PvPer, I want to be sure that those who participate in PvP actually want to be there, because then I don't have to listen to anyone cry about how mean the PvPers were to them. I get enough of that from people still gun shy* over the fact that they were PK'ed in UO.

    *Content edited by Firelotus
     
  19. BillRoy

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    I do agree with Owain, and the slider-thing option should make sure that everyone is where they want to be.

    It will make it so if you want to try PvP or just look for curiosity's sake, you can and you can leave when you've had your fill and never return if you wish. You will not be trapped there, you don't ever have to go there if you don't want to. It will make it so nobody can legitimately complain about getting killed by other players.

    Once the game goes live it will be free-to-play, there will be no shortage of people willing to PvP once word gets out. If you care to look into the game "Infestation, Survivor Stories" on YouTube you'll see that there are plenty of PvP enthusiasts that will move in (Look into Markee Dragon's channel on YouTube he alone will expose a lot of PvPers to SoTA that's a big part of his fan base now). There will most likley be plenty of PvP action.

    There won't be any innocent victims, you won't be an innocent victim. You can live free of unwarranted assault under the slider-thing system.

    I'm not really a PvPer, but I do like hard-core style action (which HC should be an added style of gameplay for the single player off-lone mode), and this way no feelings get hurt, anyone who gets me doesn't have to worry about me throwing a fit and anyone I kill had it probably deserved it.
     
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  20. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    pvp in mmos destroy the gameplay with the constant nerfnerf balance to pvp crap. They'd be better off removing it altogether, or if the 300 pvpers would cry enough to make devs actually think there's some demand for this crap just make a big field where everyone can go hit each other with rolled up newspapers, no skills but the whackwhackwhack, and nothing on at all except maybe their underwear.
     
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