Spitballing the Grind

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Womby, Jul 16, 2018.

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  1. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect one of the biggest complaints about this game (and many other games) is the grind. It is certainly my main complaint.
    So, being an incorrigible meddler, I have been thinking about ways to fix this problem.

    Maybe I should start by defining what I mean by "grind".
    For the sack of this discussion I'll define grind as the deliberate introduction of a delay in the acquisition of something collectible or manufacturable, in such a way that the delay is viewed as tedious.
    I'll assume that the delay part of the grind is made necessary by the requirements of the game's economy. That leaves tedium as our only avenue of attack.

    How to we remove the tedium from grind, and turn it into enjoyable gameplay, while still slowing down resource acquisition?

    My suggestion is to remove all player repetition, because repetition is boring. Here is one suggestion to get the ball rolling:

    Consider mining. Currently we repetitively swing a pick. Even allowing for the vanishingly small chance of discovering a COTO, this is not fun.
    What if the pick swinging was done by a clever Kobold device that automatically traveled from node to node, and our job was to make sure that the device wasn't damaged by local mobs, and if it was, to repair it.
    What if repairing it involved solving some kind of random puzzle (a mini-game), or removing some kind of mysterious obstruction (bag of coins/collectible alien artifact/COTO)?
    What if the device had a personality and talked to us? What if it mentioned things directly related to in-game quests, and/or insulted us or told jokes? (This could all be crowdsourced.)

    OK, you get the idea. Once you introduce a level of indirection into resource gathering (a device gathers the resource, and the player interacts with the device), there are many more options for keeping the player entertained.

    I would love to see your ideas on how to take the tedium out of grind, and turn it into enjoyable gameplay.

    As an incentive, I will give 10 COTOs (I'm not rich) to whoever I believe comes up with the best idea.
    Deadline is the start of Part 2 of the live stream.

    Post your entries below.

    DISCLAIMER: Of course there is no expectation that any of this will be implemented. This is just an amusing distraction to keep us occupied while we wait for Part 2 of the stream.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  2. Ravicus Domdred

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    *Ravicus sits back, takes a long toke off of a short pipe*....
    Grinding.......When I think of grinding its...well, grinding bones... Its not for everyone. Grinding is not for everyone. Some people find it distasteful.......although, I disagree..... *muhahahahah* (Dinsoo would approve).

    However, if I am wasting my time grinding, and all I grind would be going to waste for absence, or death, I prefer not grind. I would rather macro and watch hulu or netflix waiting for my character to build. I wanted more story, more lore, more virtue based decisions that actually affected your character. More faction based lore where if you killed elves then another faction would hate you more. Or if you helped the elves you could actually interact with them and gain a status in their faction. I would grind for rep more for the grind for just grindings sake.
     
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  3. Greyfox

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    Best crafting EVA! Eve Online, SWG, Archeage in this order.

    There were methods to automate the endless clicking in both Eve and SWG. Your brain, luck, and perseverance were rewards in those game. Archeage was nice because you could grow wood and resources on land you owned. While harvesting there was a rare chance at looting a rare item that would be worth about 500k IGG in our game. Usually this happened once in about 100k trees but it would get you excited every harvest hoping for a thunderstruck tree.

    SOTA should have resources available strictly based upon region. You set up a property over a map area after doing surveying. The survey will tell you the % of each mineral. Your property is used to claim the area. Once claimed you can hire workers or automations to mine for you.

    This will make land more valuable than just holding dance parties.

    Portalarium will sell more land, sell more automations or workers to work the land, the economy will benefit as the massive resources needed to create crafts won't be so dependent upon endless grinding mining and chopping wood. Those who still enjoy mining and chopping can continue to do so and as they progress move into more automated methods.

    Even though automated, people will log in regularly to check their mining and gathering equipment. Have to repair it regularly and collect the resources. Very exiting for players to log on after 24-48 hours and collect their 1000 lumber and ore. Versus dredging through another day in the mines.

    Regarding the power of "random" loot and the excitement factor:
    "“I think Fortnite Battle Royale’s secret sauce has to do with something that’s kind of obvious once you think about it: random chance. I don’t mean that Fortnite’s success is due to luck. Rather, I mean that Epic smartly leveraged the power of random rewards in their design for the game, and that’s one of the main reasons it’s so popular.”

    Make resource gathering great again!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  4. Rowell

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  5. Ravicus Domdred

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    I hope so, but IMO the time has passed for this.
     
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  6. redfish

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    I'd like to see the game become less grindy, rather than focus on taking the tedium out of the grind.

    I think the way you're defining grind is defining the problem backwards. "Grind" takes its definition from the idea of doing a game as a job; that is, going to work is the "daily grind." What makes a game grindy is not the delay from seeking something and getting it, its the game mechanics that force mindless, repetitive behavior. And it doesn't matter how "tedious" you define it, because all mindless, repetitive behavior becomes tedious if you feel forced to do it for long enough. I enjoy taking walks in the park, but after doing it for a long time, it becomes boring, and if someone forced me to do it all the time, that boring would become tedious.

    So, I think you're really hyper-focused on the method and not the ends -- the routine of grinding, rather than the things that push players into the routine of grinding.

    I don't disagree with you entirely that the routine can be better. For example, I like the idea of crafting mini-games, but I think what you want is for the game mechanics cut down on the degree that players feel directed into this routine. All the tweaking of grinding mechanics in the world won't make grinding ungrindy. Its like if you took a book to an editor with a horrible story and horrible characters, and the editor was trying to convince you to change some of the tone of the writing to make the story "sound more exciting," in order to sell it and make it easy reading to an audience.

    Things that create grind.
    - Things like high crafting requirements or taxes that create the necessity to go in zones and farm large numbers of things.
    - Small zones with quick respawning, going around those zones in circles.
    - No incentives for players to leave those zones.
    - Little or no incentives in the economic mechanics to build up a co-operative player economy, where you're encouraged to buy resources other players rather than just get them yourself.
    - Things that exaggerate the importance of adventurer level and skill level, so you have to endlessly get XP to be competitive with other players.
     
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  7. Rook Strife

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    Should have done something like this when they first designed the game.

    They could do it for episode 2 or something like that but would be a huge project.


    Would have to rework a lot of stuff in the game.
     
  8. Mugly Wumple

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    AND
    Y'all are on to something.
    Reward or variety, either can reduce grind's distaste.
     
  9. Womby

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    I liked the reply from @Greyfox best. Send me a direct message with your in-game name so I can reward you with my fabulous 10 COTO prize! :)
     
  10. Floors

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    I'd like to see more group / high xp waves like Upper tears, but with Cabalists, Dragons, Ghosts, you know, more variants
     
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