Stacking and cast time

Discussion in 'QA Feedback Archive' started by TaiKee Vetrae, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. MrSonja

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    Edited: For Bard skill tree

    Is WAY too long.

    Training the skill is painful - streaming last night for 3 hours and I only manged to level up one skill to 40. That was with 47 million XP and a guidance potion.

    Stacking that skill to a 3 stack took 37 seconds + 13 seconds cast time at that point, making it 50 seconds to cast the spell.

    I'd be dead way before that.

    Currently with the cast times as they stand, I don't see how I could effectively use this at all in combat unless I was with other people in a group. There would be no way to play by myself - which is the majority of my game play. Even in a group - a 2 second buff that takes 50 seconds to cast isnt worth it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  2. Fister Magee

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    Are you talking about bard skills? Because I don't think you mentioned any real details...
     
  3. Violet Ronso

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    Yeah, she is. Bard skills are interminably long, but the do have 1 thing, Chaotic Feedback reduces the timer by 50% (at lvl 80), and has no hp cost! probably a bug, but it works.

    Still very long and I would never charge one!
     
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  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Aren't bard skills intended to be mainly as support? As funny as the image of trying to play a lute one-handed while swinging a sword is, I feel like bards are meant to hang back and play while others do the killing.

    That said, 37 seconds for a three stack sounds awful, group or not. Outside of some bosses and wave battles, everyone would be done fighting by the time you actually cast it...
     
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  5. runicpaine

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    Tip: For stacking put them in dynamic slots and then use spellbinder stance and mind lock. Faster draw, faster cast, faster stacking and ability to pre-stack and keep from discarding via mind lock. Then just use blink to move around so you don't break spellbinder.
     
  6. Barugon

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    I'm really questioning the usefulness of the Bard skills.
     
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  7. kaeshiva

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    From what I've seen of the bard skills, it is a very ummm... "inactive" class. Honestly, its begging to be a 'dragaround alt' that needs one button press every so often.
    Ironically, the "support buffs" are pretty underwhelming - nothing whatsoever to boost casters, or focus efficiency - just autoattack speed, move speed, (does this defy the 2 move buff limit? if not, bleh), and slowing of mobs, which because of crowd control resist limitations is again, questionable. By contrast, the str/dex/critdmg buff could end up being downright silly if you have a lot of crit-build players in your group, or completely pointless if you don't. (The usual group I run with would get almost nil benefit from anything a bard can do. We'd be better off with that dragaround alt, or low level, just playing the invigoration harp.)

    So, the support buffs, which was kinda what I was expecting to see with bard, are ...questionable, but the offensive capabiltiy, is by contrast, a bit....over the top? Stacking up concusssive to 5 (think mind lock deck here) was doing thousands of damage and yes, the cast times are long but in terms of damage for time spent its silly. They also appear to scale off of strength (it makes your voice stronger!) which erm, okay.

    Honestly, I'm really not sure about it still.
    I've seen some fantastic bard implementations but most of them have been a lot more 'active'
    Look at the EQ2 dirge/troubador classes that had several stackable group auras but also their own set of attack skills, shouts, strum-instrument-note-insta-damage type stuff
    Look at Vanguard bards who could weave/compose/create their own custom songs using different learned components to tailor the music to the group's needs
    Look at the bard implementation in Rift, who used a channeled "basic attack" that strummed music notes at the enemy and added heals/buffs/etc. to the team based on how you built them, as well as getting a variety of group buffs/auras/etc.

    With sota's "classless system" obviously you'd want the true power to be locked behind specialization to prevent everyone from learning and keeping all the buffs up, and our skill system makes these things extremely difficult to balance, but honestly I'm not really seeing any reason to fiddle with bard at all, as there's just too much arbitrary delay with the cast times that by the time you execute something, if you're in a group, whatever they were fighting is probably long dead. Its kinda the same problem I have with my pet - by the time it paths its way to the target, I've likely killed it.
     
  8. OzzyOsbourne

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    humm.... here's a prediction;
    everyone is going to have a chaotic bard alt
     
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  9. Numa

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    I'm quite underwhelmed by what I've been reading so far. Am having a hard time picturing how a bard can rapidly switch gears in a fast moving, always changing battle. And I wouldn't really count on those powerful offensive bard songs staying as they are - chances are they'll be nerfed before long.

    A lot of tamers are going to be disappointed by this. Doesn't sound like the good match with the taming tree that we thought it was going to be.

    Come to think of it, is there any tree that would complement the bard tree nicely? If none, that would be a real problem.
     
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  10. runicpaine

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    The biggest benefit of bard currently is for Tamers or Death Knights to boost their summons/pets damage. Most tamers are archers though so it's weird that the radius is sooooo small for the abilities it forces you to be right up in the action which goes against the nature of the class. The 2 melee buffs along with the tamers enrage (or w/e it's called) ability for their pet can make their pets pretty powerful. Unless you have multiple melee and/or pets in the group though, you're right, what are you really gaining as a net benefit overall? I definitely agree that there should be something that buffs casters/focus too. Additionally the radius limitation makes some of the buffs/debuffs practically useless. Seems odd to force a support class/skill to be practically in melee range for their abilities to have an effect. What good does slowing a mob down do if it doesn't work until they're 2 steps away? At that point caltrops and/or ice field would be more effective and require less time/effort to use.
     
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  11. Numa

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    The small radius makes no sense! When I fight alongside my pet it's with a shield and polearm. There's no way it's going to work if I'm right beside or near my bear strumming my lute with very little defense.

    Even if there is a second person in the party then he/she should be way behind me while my pet and I tank the mobs.

    Multiple pets in combat are incoming according to Chris but he also said some balancing changes were in store for the taming tree. We'll see.

    If I start seeing bards in plate armor on the field then I'm going sic my bear on them. There's only so much I can take :mad:
     
  12. Violet Ronso

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    Chaos could be a decent one, add a bit of chaos to the mix, ESPECIALLY Chaotic Feedback (which reduces cast time by 50% at lvl 80, for no cost). Taming is a very good one too, considering the buffs will be given to your pet, which will increase its potential.

    For now, with what I've seen and tested, my goal is to have Taming Spec, the bard skills + Chaotic Feedback, Haven't decided on the rest yet, but anyways, with those casting timers, I doubt I will have time to use any other skill
     
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  13. Fister Magee

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