Staff is inferior over wands?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Snakyy, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Snakyy

    Snakyy Avatar

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    More I look stats on staffs vs wands, more it look that staffs are inferior in any aspect that would be interesting for any casters.

    Intelligence bonus? Two wands are better
    Spell damage bonus? Two wands are better
    Spell Critical Bonus? Two wands are better
    Attunement bonus? Two wands are better
    Melee damage? Two wands are better (Not that matter as caster don't rely on melee anyways)
    Defence? You can use wand and shield. Using staff you cannot use shield so your defense is thus inferior.
    Magic fiddle bonus? Here staff get 10% more! (Staff give 30% magic fiddle bonus and free hand another 10%)

    So what is the point of having staffs in this game? Staff is as far I can see, only a curiosity weapon that only a noob or some roleplayer would use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  2. Barugon

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    Are you sure about this? Offhand attack is only done through a single special attack - Offhand Attack. If you use that then you're not using another special or charged attack. I think you would probably net less DPS using two one-handed weapons than a two-handed weapon.
    Wand = -15% fizzle * 2 = -30% fizzle.
    Staff = -30% fizzle.
    They look to be the same if you're using two wands.
     
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  3. Black FjP

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    You get -10% fizzle from open offhand with staff for some reason, so it's actually -40%, and staves do do more melee damage than wands whatever that is worth.

    They are far inferior to wands in every other aspect.
     
  4. Floors

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    I still think Staves need to be incentivized. Dual wands is cool, but Staffs are classic Ultima (still waiting on that Snake staff...)
     
  5. Toadster

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    Staves are two handed so if you are getting (which I don’t think you are) the 10% from open offhand than it is probably a big and should be reported.

    But OP is correct with 2 wands you can enchant 2 items and get double the impact over a staff. The only benefits I see from a staff is visual look of staff vs wands and swapping decks. Swapping one item ina deck is a whole lot quicker than swapping two wands. I really wish they would just fix it so two handed weopon would get double the value for enchant/masterwork over a one handed. At least then the benefits would be close to equal but a staff could have more specific benefits but the overall value would be equal.
     
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  6. Xee

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    This is on Atos(Chris's) list of things to correct. He mentioned staffs will get a bump but not a full bump as two wands. like 1.7 vs 2.

    Myself I have been pushing on this for a while, and throwing it in the QA every now and then as a reminder for the exact reason you mentioned. I have a fantastic collection of staffs waiting to be completed once they fix them as well all them amazing skins ready to roll. I so want to use a staff for a foci vs wands but my understanding is that it will never be better for casters as the staff is more a weapon vs foci. I did asked in the last QA if we could have a new type of staff which is foci only for mages. us mages need more options. I could care less about melee as a mage. @Chris
     
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  7. Floors

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    Hate to say this... because I have a spellcaster as an alt and am dual wand... but if dual wands are limiting staff use and sale of patterns, perhaps it is time to not allow dual wands.. I never see staffs in game.
     
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  8. Xee

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    This was brought up once in an old twitch stream where they were going to do just that. however it never came to be because of the back lash I think. If they were to do this they would have to bump up both the single wand and the staffs to be what wands are currently in order to maintain a balance between the melee. I have tested ranged, swords, daggers, axes and found that mages well can do some good damage are not the best for everything as is. a Melee class can do more over all with less and take bosses that a mage can not. It would be easier to simply fix the staffs enchants/MW to be in line with that of wands and reduce the dmg of the staffs, and or add a new staff type like a quarter staff for combat.
     
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  9. CatweazleX

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    Masterwork gives double the amount of bonus on 2H-Weapons as on 1H-Weapons. But also costs double the durability. Thats the reason that a staff can not mastwerworked as high as a wand. Enchants are the same on 1H and 2H.
    Probably the fix the masterwork and enchantments not only for staves.

    There is also a skill in the focus tree to reduce fizzle chance. The +10% less fizzle chance from staves (free offhand) is may only valuable at the very beginning.

    What staves should become is a bonus for focus regeneration better then 2 wands or less focus cost for magic spells (maybe better idea). Maybe: Stave -6% focus cost (or +6% focus regain) and wand -2% focus cost (-4% with 2 wands)
    Or with a stave all spells are stronger but cast times are also longer.
    Another option might be that someone has to train the offhand in tactics to make the mw/enchants from offhand weapon useable. Or strengthen the mw/enchants from offhand weapon when GM or higher. Thats a longer journey for 2 wands mages, but they benefit later. (a GM'ed tactics.offhand is stronger with 2 wands as with a staff)

    The mage staves and wands should have a bonus for the crowd control part of the bludgeon, staves more then 2 wands. The current damage staves deals are ok.

    For masterwork and enchantment i suggest that the strength/power is controlled on how many ingots are used: eg: +0-1 int = 1 ingot, +1-2 int = 2, ... +4-5 int = 5. (and get rid of lesser and normal +int). To be able to use 5 ingots one need to be GM or higher.
    This would also help beginners to produce cheaper weapons/armour, since the can not use as much ingots, aka less production cost.
    For 2H weapons the double amount of ingots is required and result in double the power of mw/enchant compared to 1H. And costs the same durability as with 1H weapons. (not the double as it is now).
     
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  10. Floors

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    Some great constructive feedback and thoughts here.
     
  11. Zeddicus Zorander

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    I've complained about this previous and had discussions on it... Chris did say they'd look into it... but who knows when...
     
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  12. Gawayne Pureheart

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    Just getting around to looking into this. My current character was started this year as a caster predominantly, and I decided to do the staff thing, having done NO research. So I find myself now at 54 adventure level after doing all but finishing off the Love quest (cant solo all those skellies yet) I still wear the truth cloth gear set, and was using a staff of some sort gotten during the quest lines. I started looking at upgrading the staff via crafting or purchase. There were no staves seen looking at multiple player vendors, while there were wands a plenty. I finally found one somewhere obscure, but it was a kinship only box, not even for sale.

    I resorted to crafting a maple staff with fustian staps, ... and the strap recipe is a supply bag drop only. Fortunately, a guild mate offered a spare he had. In guild chat I asked the crowd about staves, and, to a person, they all scoffed on the current staff offerings, and recommended 2 hand wands, using the off hand for stats only. So I made some maple wands with fustian straps. The damage from the one is only slightly less than the staff, but hits only 2 targets instead of 3. Lots more caster stats. Until I get good enough at snaring and kiting a group, I will miss the hit 3 at once staff.

    I really wanted to be a staff user as well as others have mentioned here, so I hope they get this matter sorted out. An earlier character of mine was caster with 2 hand swords way back in the alpha/beta phase, when wands and staves actually casted meaningless range damage, but were worthless once the mob gets there.
     
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  13. Xee

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    @Chris a reminder thread of all us sad mages :)
     
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