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Supple & Hardened Leather Nerfed?

Discussion in 'Release 26 Feedback Forum' started by Mysticvermin, Feb 19, 2016.

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  1. Malcipher

    Malcipher Avatar

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    I could understand that over all situation that takes away from the game. however my observation on the light vs heavy armor is that as of currently the dodge chance or damage avoidance for leather was more efficient than the damage resistance on heavy armor. which was crazy because taking fewer hits is great and all but, this was just silly surviving multiple times where my heavy armor just failed to take ANY damage (archery enemies ripped my heavy armor to kibble and bits,) where as my brother in law who was wearing leather successfully dodged over and over and ended up surviving in great shape. (not to mention the crit chance) this really broke my will to stay in heavy armor and I made the switch to leather and we now had no one in "tank" gear it was dodge tanks for days we were rarely taking hits and the ones we did take were low in damage anyway.

    this had happened before in WoW were rogues were essentially dodge tanking bosses better than the tanks and they had to nerf the hell out of dodge chance.

    I did mention that I was under the impression that the reasoning for the debuff was for pvp, now the fact is that maybe we were armor boosted and pushed to next level content so be it, but as I also stated that fights without it were just not as reliable in dps after the debuff. We still haven't found much content as of yet that in a group aren't able to take down only a few we couldn't complete with or without (i.e. demon, dragon) it just takes longer again which is fine by me it makes pulling and controlling combat more fun anyways.

    and my personal idea for pvp stats and the like is just a thought I had while typing my post from before.
     
  2. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Now you mentioned it.. I'm glad I went ahead and just wear heavy armor awhile back.
     
  3. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I think its inching closer every release. Light armor is far more useful now that it was last release, and plate is not invulnerable anymore
     
  4. Noric

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    Isn't this the intended functionality of crit as a mechanic? If they wanted to add reliable dps they would convert all crit to %damage increase. Crit is traditionally used in a way that prioritizes spikes of damage over consistency. The fact that high crit chance actually acts with a decent degree of consistency, just shows how overtuning critical chance has major consequences.

    Edit: As i have not done a lot of testing of dodge versus resistance, I'm afraid i can't speak to that subject.
     
  5. Malcipher

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    its starting to get less extreme ends of balance beam but imo, I never really liked stats on armor or weapons anyway as this becomes a min-max thing that i spend FAR to much time on and in the past has metaphorically killed games for me. ultima online once upon a time did not have stats on items till those REALLY unique items started dropping it was cool to get them but ultimately did not effect battle that much as the stats were +1 - +2 of a main stat. Later Ultima added the elves and the crafting of 60% crit and 50% ssi bows and the like which I then lost interest after a while where the game became a show of stats. WOW really killed it as that was all the game became was a race to the next best set of armor/weapon per expansion grind till best attained then restart on expansion replacing your epic gear with blues and greens.
     
  6. Malcipher

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    yes, crit is supposed to be sporadic and a up down roller coaster which is fine I am not against that I was stating in defense to an earlier comment that the content we were doing was only effected slightly, the elevated amount of crit chance became a non-variable and a small influence to what we were willing to fighting which really didn't effect much as we are almost at the limits of what is in game currently so far. only things we haven't killed are the dragon and the demon, still waiting to see the return of the Phoenix.
     
  7. Smalls

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    If anyone has any room to complain it is ol Fizz here.. I was one of , if not the first, in hardened leather. I ran the stats off to a few people, and mentioned that the decimal was off by 1 point. Then I was asked to show it to Themo so he could generate a report. Yes I completely bushwacked him with the charged attack and the 95.5% damage bonus for a 600ish crit in his full plate. That was reported. The charge time was increased and the damage decreased. Now they address the armor OP issue and move the decimal one spot over, as it should have been to start with. Only thing I ask about this is to re-evaluate the benefit of Light (leather) vs Plate. If you can explain to me how plate has higher avoidance and less absorb then leather please do. (it's backwards imo) I think the values of the crafted leather should be doubled, that would put us around 20% weapon damage (if using hardened) instead of the almost 100% which was just wrong.. I should not see a crit for 750 just using a charged up 2hd bladed attack.. but I did..
     
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  8. Barugon

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    With all the innate and armor nerfs, my character really sucks now, even at level 60. :(
     
  9. Mysticvermin

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    There's some things here that bother me, but let me lay down some groundwork.

    First off, for the base defensive stats on full sets of Epic Plate vs Augmented Leather:
    Epic Plate: Resist: 13 Absorb: 0.6 Avoidance: 15
    Augmented Leather: Resist: 9 Absorb: 0.4 Avoidance: 0
    Notes: The Heavy Armor tree has the passive Deflection which increases both Resist & Absorb. Avoidance causes glancing blows which from my combat parsing look to be very effective, reducing hits to 1 or 2 most of the time, but no data on how it calculates.

    My reference for defensive stats:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...rption-vs-damage-avoidance.41297/#post-464209

    As I learned in that thread Resist & Absorb act as cross checks for incoming damage using which ever one that mitigates the least amount of damage. Resist is a flat amount while Absorb is a percent. Off the top of my head I really have no idea how high Resist can stack, maybe 100? I would say that this situation is more of a condemnation of the current armor system. I think it was designed with the idea of not allowing damage immunity from smaller hits, but your example shows exactly how flawed it is at handling large damage spikes. The other problem here is the grossly unbalanced situation with weapons. Bigger is better, and two-handers are king. Not only do they get a larger strength bonus, they can charge up even higher and even hit more targets. You put both of these together and you have an insane problem with pvp. Even with the reduced value from a hardened leather set you're still talking about a hit of over 300 to your opponents health pool. Whether you one shot them or not, I think you've already decided the outcome of the battle. Pvp should have it's own balancing out side of normal mechanics.

    Looking at this example I think the defensive stat system would work better without Resist in the calculation, or if it was instead treated as another percent multiplicative modifier and values adjusted accordingly. You wouldn't have the problem of diminishing effectiveness as the damage numbers increase while still maintaining the ability for smaller hits to get through. On the offensive side of the equation I have something to think about. If having 100% increase from a set of armor seems excessive what about the fact that a charged attack from a two-handed sword is doing 165% increased damage? 100% from 5 items vs 165% from one item. Which is more excessive? Granted I've been enjoying using the enormous charged hits but I also recognized immediately how imbalanced it was and how it negated any other weapon set up.

    So going back to the armor sets. We can see how much better plate is than leather for defense. With the current stats on the crafting mats bronze epic plate actually provides 1.4% more damage than hardened augmented leather. That's just a sad state of affairs. Let's look at the armor trees as well. We can see that light armor has offensive bonuses through attack speed, but as far as I know that only effects auto/free attacks. Heavy armor has two offensive bonuses through a strength passive and a strength cooldown. Strength increases damage from all of your non-magical attacks and those from earth magic as well. It also increases damage mitigated from shield block and parry. You're losing a lot by not wearing plate and there should be a serious compensation as a trade off. Doesn't it seem like Dex or Int characters should have similar benefit from their armor? Where's the boost to their stats? Either make it a big tree to fit in benefits for both or there should be separate trees. What is the design philosophy behind leather & cloth armor? If we understand that then we can figure out how their armor tree(s) can provide suitable benefit to their gameplay.

    As an aside to everything else after crafting the plate armor in order to get the stats for this comparison I found that I can wear plate in every slot except the chest and still maintain my light armor status. How can this be a thing? Although, if the stats remain as is this will be my plan going forward as I'm already too invested in the light armor tree, until R27 that is.
     
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