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The boats from Hidden Vale to Novia need tolls.

Discussion in 'Release 26 Feedback Forum' started by Grave Dragon, Feb 22, 2016.

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  1. agra

    agra Avatar

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    Unfortunately, I very clearly understand what is at stake: fun, and the population of the game. But not in the way you might think at first glance. In particular, the more un-fun you make it (by charging people to go from Adoris to Hidden Vale), you add a punitive mechanic to something that only exists as a necessary convenience in video games.
    Regional economy is dead with what you describe as 'recreational travel', because of this:
    You can walk out of your own region, and teleport back. It's done. Stick a fork in it.
    Un-fun punitive mechanics trying to put out the fire in the burning barn long after the horse has run out of the yard, through the gate and across the field, serve no purpose, in my opinion.
    IMO, 60% of the PoTs will be ghost towns for the reasons you cite, no matter what Portalarium does, at this point. That has nothing/less to do with this one boat ride, and adding yet another punitive mechanic.

    I'll phrase this another way. There's many MMO's behind us in history that have been wildly successful while including two things: an in-game global market, and fast travel. Trying NOT to do that, in the face of demonstrated success, is very very risky, given every attempt thus far to do it has failed horribly. (PFO being the most recent failure)
    I'm all for positive innovation. I'm not a fan of punitive mechanics that have historically been demonstrated to contribute to failure by reducing the target demographic. It's bad business sense, and it's a slippery slope. Punitive mechanics do not attract more customers. What has been outlined is a punitive mechanic. /shrug

    I applaud your intent, Grave, and I applaud Portalarium for the marketing doublespeak around this issue, but these two things can't co-exist. Teleportation beats Regional Economies. Rock beats Scissors.
     
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  2. Black Orchid

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    Your right this is why I have my reservations about control points for them to work there as to be no other form of travel what so ever. The problem is they are there and should not be skipped easily by boat travel that's free while they exist.I agree there is other problems like teleporting . Either you have control points on there own with nothing else, charge the same for anything that bypasses them so theres no gain either way or remove control points and have free travel. At the moment we have control points and free ways round them. In saying that I agree 1500 is a lot and should be lower.

    The regional argument I have heard a lot about but I am unsure how control points effect this because you can just run through them anyway with goods at the moment for free. I am sure there is a reason but unsure what it is. Hopefully somebody will clarify this with me.
     
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  3. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I chime in again saying that you can pay the mages at CPs, but you can also decide to go on your own and tackle the CP as intended.

    With a fee on the boat, you wouldn't have this choice. Either pay or don't go.
     
  4. Beaumaris

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    What if boats from multiple cities in multiple regions went to the Hidden Vale? Why does it make sense that Hidden Vale is only accessible from Ardoris?
     
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  5. Beaumaris

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    Not sure what row lots have to do with HV not being a starting zone? I might want a row lot there for some reason even though I am high level and have a keep lot somewhere else, for example.
     
  6. Black Orchid

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    You would if we either had the option to smuggle on board and risk getting caught , or maybe if you dont pay you end up with a worse boat and risk sinking. either of which would send you back to your starting point . This should be the same with control points to if we use them and die back to control point we entred not be aloud to ghost through to another ank at the other side.:)
     
  7. Phydra

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    I have yet to have 1500 gold I could afford to spare, so this pretty much ensures I only travel when I have no other choice. So, if the goal is to keep people bound to an area, sure, that's going to work fine.
     
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  8. Grave Dragon

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    What I think some are missing is that the CPs are not supposed to prevent all travel. You can run through with plate armor at a lower level without paying a fee as it is intended long term. I think this is by design. I also think Portalarium recognizes the concerns some have with having a fee but no free mechanic to bypass it, which is why there isn't a current fee. I know a flat toll would suck, but something needs to be done between those two regions, I wouldn't care how it was executed provided it serves its intended purpose.

    Everyone is currently enjoying their 4x XP modifiers and their unrestricted movement while overweight. When the 4x multiplier goes away, the ammount of raw materials you gather as you level will be 4x because it will take 4x the mats for all players to reach the same grandmaster goals. This is the time that the CPs really serve their purpose and promote regional trade. Four times the materials = four times the trade = four times the attempted transport over control points.

    I have a strong feeling the movement when overweight will revert to what it was many releases ago where, if you are overweight and out of focus, you'll stop moving completely. Now picture trying to run through a control point overweight, once youre out of focus, the undead will turn you into a kabob. Or perhaps it wont be 'that' extreme and youll only be slowed down, which is still problematic when being assaulted by skeletal mages... so again (I know broken record) the point is not to restrict all travel, just transport of goods.

    Not if they prevent you from teleporting if your character is overweight, or have a pack animal in tow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  9. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

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    Its steep in the games current state and while under level 30, I agree. I dont think its nearly as bad over level 30. I can collect 6k gold an hour very easy in many zones including lower level ones. Whiteguard Foothills is a good example and its only a 2 skull zone.

    Then again, in Medieval times, most people couldnt afford to travel internationally, so its realistic. I don't think 1500 gold will be a major issue in the long term.
     
  10. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

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    I agree, If Hidden Vale is in fact north of Novia, there should be a boat in Port Graff and one either in Brittany or in the northcentral or northwest of Regalis\North Paladis.
     
  11. Arkah EMPstrike

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    On novia, the Perennial Coast is the only region closed off by control points. All other regions currently have walkable overworld routse connecting them.

    And the lunar rift connects the perrenial cost to the rest of the world as well.

    At the moment, most control points are quicker to run through than running through ardoris to get to the docks. So removing the overworld boats would make it similar to current control points.
     
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  12. Arkah EMPstrike

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    1500 is pretty damn steep. You can teleport past control points for 1000 and thats still rarely used by other than the richest folks
     
  13. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Ki
    kingsport was a major shipping town until the smugglers took it over. I suppose smugglers would want to use expected routes
     
  14. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

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    Kind of the point brohan, if it's avoidable it's not going to do any good.

    I honestly do believe 1500 gold is fair over level 30, so it really just leaves lower level toons trying to go to/from regions they live in or want to level in.

    I had an idea to help that scenario as well. I'll include it here to get your opinions.

    What if the mysterious mages had an order that they belonged to which was, from an RP perspective, trying to make travel safer for the masses (since it's monsters who hold control points) and instead of requiring gold, they also allowed you to travel through control points for some kind of token or symbol of their order that you could earn through a specific line of quests in the immediate region on either side, surrounding that specific CP?

    This could allow a newer player to go through a short (unrepeatable) story quest line and earn 2-3 free pass tokens, a little gold and maybe a few run speed potions to cross the cotrol point safely.

    (This could work for all CP's and boat crossings and there are already smugglers in some port towns to facilitate the quests).

    That would allow some travel across each CP or boat to get to the leveling zones you wanted to level in. Beyond that it's a non issue because you'd be able to either afford plate or earn the 1500 gold relatively easily.
     
  15. Womby

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    I have to agree with this point. Based on the current fee to pass through control points unmolested (1,500g), a one way trip would be equivalent to a month's tax on a row house. The result would be that those who lived in the Hidden Vale would feel that although they paid for the entire game, they are restricted to a small part of it.
     
  16. Womby

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    It takes me less than 60 seconds to get through Eastreach Gap without paying anyone anything. If your proposal was implemented I would teleport to my alt in the Hidden vale, then recall back home.
     
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  17. agra

    agra Avatar

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    Agreed.
    People will just make multiple trips at 0.1 under the weight limit.
     
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  18. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

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    And this would be perfectly ok in my opinion. It would require they trained up some STR and maybe weight capacity, it would take them several trips with cooldowns in between and they'd be paying for reagents to make the trip.

    I didn't check to see what the cooldown was for teleport or recall on QA but we will have it live tomorrow. Provided it's 10+ minutes, which I suspect it will be, I think it's sufficient to encourage local trade.
     
  19. Barugon

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    Why not just put a toll on every form of passage, including going from one scene to another? For instance, to enter a town, NPC or POT, from the world map would require paying gold.
     
  20. Womby

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    Ask not for whom the toll smells, it smells for thee. And me. And anyone else who wants to enjoy life.
     
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