The Character Slot Debacle: Proposal - a Buyback Program.

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by ThurisazSheol, Oct 16, 2015.

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  1. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

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    the original thought was a single character slot per account.
    then people griped and @RichardGarriott gave in and created a tiered system based on pledge level. starting a feature-creep trend.
    now people are complaining about names being tied on these avatar slots, while other people want to keep the ties.. creating lots of drama-rama, as well as further feature-creep.
    then combine the rumors that they may have character slots for sale in the add-on store...

    as a company, Portalarium can't just reneg and not provide the items, since it has been offered up for months - but there is an alternative, to get them back closer to the original vision Richard had.

    how about a buyback program? give us credits or an item in return for one or both of our slots, based on how many we choose to give up.

    it, as budner said, would have to be big. because i know quite a few people who are here to play multiple characters via roleplay or other activities.

    i was thinking the choice of credits or a tax free lot deed.

    the deeds would have to coincide with the type of account the player has, though.. royal founders and founders would need those types of deeds, while benefactors would need those types of deeds.

    i'd give up one character slot for a tax free village lot deed.
    i'd give up two character slots for a tax free town lot deed, or the choice of two tax free village lot deeds.
    i'd give up both character slots, for a bump to the next tier pledge.

    i'd consider giving up a character slot for enough credits (leaving amount for you to decide, devs)

    i would not give up any slots for a tax free row house deed.

    the only abuse i'd be able to see is someone like @Ravicus Domdred who has something crazy like 234252612353245 accounts - but since he has his own town, i don't see it as abuse in that particular case because he plans on using (most of) them there.

    then again, people who are here for the real estate to make a personal profit - would profit even more.. the devs would have to consider if it is worth that or not. is it worth it, for the longevity of the game? or if it is even to be considered an issue at all, that is NOT for the playerbase and testers to decide.
     
  2. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

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    While we're at it, I'll give up my clockwork pet for a tax free town lot deed and my Iolo's lute for a tax free city lot deed.

    Thank you very much. :D
     
  3. Bubonic

    Bubonic Avatar

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    im confused. You want to return something that was given to you for free in exchange for something worth hundreds of dollars?

    o_O
     
  4. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I don't think it benefits Portalarium to put time and effort into developing a buy back program.

    Even if they did, one slot is not equivalent to a rent free Village deed. That is the main portion of a $500 pledge.

    I think the reason Portalarium expired the 2nd deeds in pledge tiers for new people is that they're trying to get a handle on how many lots they need in game. The buyback program you propose is not only not beneficial for Portalarium in any way and not fair, but it would cause more people to be upset and mass chaos for their planning.

    Can you imagine how upset people would be if they paid $1500-$1600 for a Town lot and then suddenly you get one for giving one one minor aspect of your $275 pledge that was added on later?

    This is not currently a debacle.

    That would be a debacle.
     
  5. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

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    @Bubonic read the thread linked. it was a possible solution in case the devs want to get back to the origonal scope of one person one avatar from their previous change, without losing face or screwing over the backers.

    @Kara Brae while i read the sarcasm in your response, i was still serious. this particular issue is quite sensitive to some people.

    @enderandrew i chose lot deeds to impart the importance of this issue that some of the backers have. as long as it has appropriate value, i wouldn't mind. for me, a slot is worth a deed. but i certainly do understand the reasons why they limited deeds in the first place.

    i'm of the opinion that it IS a bone of contention for people.. i'm one of those people.. i'm not going to posture and threaten to walk away from the project, but i feel very strongly about one part of the issue itself, the names being shared across avatars on the same account. i simply do not like it from the way i tend to roleplay different characters with different agendas. while i also do not like the reputation being tied, i understand why that is needed, and am not contesting that one bit.

    one resolution is to do away with the multiple character slots per account, but since they are on the roster on pledge rewards, it isn't smart of Port to just do away with them without compensating those who have paid for them via pledging.

    ender, how would you resolve the issue?
     
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  6. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Well it depends what issue are you talking about?

    Are you saying the issue of how reputation is tied to accounts? Many people seem upset that character virtue decisions (Truth, Love and Courage) are shared, which I don't think is the case. The solution is just clarifying how the system will work. If they're only sharing player reputation akin to karma, that is somewhat of a necessity to prevent exploits and griefing. Any player with a good reputation has no complaint and nothing to fear.

    Are you saying the issue is multiple slots in the first place? You don't want additional slots, then don't use them.

    Some people don't want a pet cat. They don't have to use it.
     
  7. Violation Clauth

    Violation Clauth Avatar

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    Not sure how there's a debacle. What'd I miss? o_O

    What's up right now:
    • You can have 1 Avatar and not use the other two if you want.
    • You can have more than one avatar if you want.
    The option is yours... if you don't want to use the other slots then don't... but you can't tell GM that you don't want the plastic cover on your belt clip so you would rather have a new turbo installed and leather seats in the car instead of the plastic cover... I feel like this is a similar request. This was an "included" item in the pledge not an add-on so it's not a debacle... it's a feature. :)

    Do you mind explaining how that is an issue to leave it how it is right now? With the new skill system I don't even know if I'll use any of my extra accounts or character slots myself... I can have so many hours on one Avatar why would I want to divide that... that's just my choice.
     
  8. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Is this a really bad joke, or is the OP actually serious...
     
  9. Satan Himself

    Satan Himself Avatar

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    Here's another issue. I paid $10 for a witch hat. My main will never wear that hat, I bought it for an alt. If I don't have an alt, I don't want the hat. Does Port buy back my hat?

    I think it's the road to madness. Honestly I wouldn't trade a tax-free town lot for the two extra character slots. But a lot of people would. But everyone will have a different price point.

    Let's say Port buys back 90% of the character slots. Is it fair that a "holdout" like me would still have 3 slots? Do you force a "holdout" to surrender the slots? That's certainly not an option.

    I know this discussion is theoretical and none of this will ever happen. Honestly I don't see a problem with 3 accounts. I think the tail of theoretical gaming purity is wagging the dog of practicality and fun.
     
  10. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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  11. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

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    no, the reputation is not in question. as you said, the karma. not an issue. i have zero concerns about that.

    did any of you read the thread i linked in my OP? - thank you @Sir Frank , guess i was not being blunt enough with the link above. my bad on that, folks.

    @Budner the buyout i recommended as a possible solution to the issue allows for the holdouts to actually keep the slots they want, while letting those that have issues with multiple characters, to get rid of them if they choose. everyone is happy, basically. for those that would sell them back, where is the line on how much those slots are worth?

    ender was right on the cost of lots being well above the cost of a slot just based on the scale the devs placed on pledge cost vs pledge rewards. fortunately, i was using lots as a point to show that some people take the slots very seriously, and if Port was wanting a way to get rid of as many of those as possible, this was one potential out...just draw a line and make it happen. so again, where is that line?
     
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  12. Satan Himself

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    I think offering the option to buy back ANYTHING (including but not limited to character slots) we've spent money on is great. I just don't think it's ever going to happen.
     
  13. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    Why do you need to get rid of your extra slots?
     
  14. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    I love this thread because it shows how dangerous it can be to say things like "we probably won't change something" verses "we will NOT be changing something".

    When it comes to religious debates like this, you can't make everyone happy. The Old Testament and the New Testament don't even jive together, let alone introducing the Koran and the Torah. The developers need to be agnostic to mechanics when it impacts the vision of the game. Vision first, make multiple playing styles happy second.

    Mohammed, Yahweh, the Lord, Jesus, it's all semantics here. Please don't listen to it, make the game as intended. This isn't supposed to be Grand Theft Auto where players are encouraged to roam the lands doing as much damage as possible with very little accountability. Players are supposed to do what they want, but those choices are supposed to have a meaningful impact.

    This is the second bullet point from the Kickstarter:
    Note that it says "players" not "characters.

    I'm also reminded of a famous story by Richard Garriot: http://uo.com/2012/09/28/memorable-moments-from-richard-garriot/
    If you allow multiple characters to be unlinked, then the completely predictable results will be on you. Because the players will simply say "if you didn't want me to use my characters slots like this, then why did you let me have them in the first place?"

    This is exhausting for me to carry on the fight against multiple characters. Especially after it's been said multiple times that we would not be changing anything else on this subject. I understand that we don't want to stop communication and feedback, but I don't think we should invite people to religiously campaign for something that is supposed to be decided on already. Please someone put a stop to this madness.
     
  15. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

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    I realize you're just trying to make a point but.. make sure you know what you're talking about first and.. this is probably not the sort of thing you want to use as an example in the first place.
     
  16. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

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    You're completely making my point for me if you argue anything about religion. Just saying that I don't understand what I'm talking about, would make my point regardless of the details. You're always going to find people that disagree about topics like this, no one is going to be happy - that's the point. The point is not to debate real world religion, certainly not with random people on the internet on the Shroud of the Avatar website.
     
  17. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

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    That may be your point.. but my point there are reasons we avoid topics like religion and politics. Enough said.
     
  18. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    But that was part of the compromise with people who only wanted everyone to have a single slot. Part of the objection raised was the potential for exploits and griefing with different slots with different reputation/karma.
     
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  19. Satan Himself

    Satan Himself Avatar

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    Yeah really. Impairs our ability to discuss abortion and gun control. ;)

    Sorry, SWORD control.
     
  20. Ancev

    Ancev Avatar

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    I'd like my 'buy back reward' to be the transformative progression of the skill system from human mage to lichdom to demi-god where I can then confer certain bonuses from the underworld to the members of my 'religion' called The Cult of Vecna where players can hunt down my body parts which have been scattered throughout the game environment and utilize them to terrorize villagers throughout the land until these body parts can be united into the final ritual ceremony held at a certain stone henge location....amirite?
     
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