The Combat System....

I could understand a combat system with random extras, advantages, powers and abilities or even curses or penalties delivered in a turn based like system, delivering advantages or disadvantages from your Deck while in combat, a deck you could create from glyphs won in quests, or just by hitting a required skill level, that would add some randomness to the fights and I could even imagine it would be great and fun, but drawing random cards for every single basic skill, forcing players to micromanaging cards, add to this that even the key you have to press is random, this is nonsense.

 

I don't understand how you are correlating unrelated things to the combat system. It really doesn't make sense. I'm sorry I'm being so blunt, but if you attempt to make your arguments valid in a gaming world situation I might be able to understand what you are saying doesn't work. Your post is really all over the place, feeling more political and reactionary, rather than interested in furthering a discussion on RPG combat systems.

 

The combat is bad. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig. I know a section of the die-hards seem to be in love with this snore fest of a combat system but trust me, it wont fly come release. Look at every youtube video where someone is trying out SotA for the first time. Its always negative comment about combat.. or just out right laughter at it. You guys dont have to do the die hard fan boy stuff for everything the game devs show you. No self respecting gamer would choose this system, if you say otherwise I have zero problem calling you a liar or just plain ignorant.

Or we could just make sure the devs keep their focus on street names and add-on store fluff...

 

Professional reviews are always accurate.



WHAT'S A PALADIN?????

 

I know you're passionate about the game just like the rest of us, and just want to make it better, but please avoid calling others stupid and ignorant, and liars. Be respectful to differing view points and people will be more likely to listen to what you say and take it seriously. Thank you for your criticism, but remember it's just opinion and everyone has one. There is no right and wrong here, only a passionate community with diverse opinions who all deserve fair treatment and respect.

 

I never called anyone stupid, nor would I unless being personally attacked. No need to embellish to try and prove your point.

Usually when adults have frank, open, honest discussions they tend use no non-scenes grown up words to express emotion and hopefully bring more clarity to their viewpoint. I'm sorry that offends you. Frankly it was a pretty harmless statement, no ones being attacked here my friend. Ill try to use kid gloves more often around here. But I find people who do so can come across as tepid and meek. I would prefer something stronger for the SotA community, but hey like you said, opinions, everyone's got em right?

 

Calling people liars, ignorant and lacking self respect is not a part of any reasonable or constructive argument or criticism. And they certainly are not 'grown up' words meant for mature conversation.

 

I just bought the game and started playing it earlier today. I don't mind the deck system so far, it's pretty fun. Dragging and stacking skills is a minor inconvenience and I think it would be nice to have a faster and more intuitive way of doing it. Something as simple as holding a number then tapping where you want to place it would be nice. For example, say you have two of the same skill on 1 and 3. You could hold 3 and then tap 1 and it would stack 3 on top of 1. Much easier and faster than using the mouse. I can see people accidentally doing it when they don't mean to, so maybe have it tied to one of the modifier keys (shift/ctrl/alt).

Also, I think it should default to the deck system instead of a fully locked hand. Throw people right into the deck system. It's more fun than a locked hand.

Also, need more combos. I'm not sure if maybe I can't see all combos or maybe more combos are planned and just not yet implemented, but right now there don't seem to be too many so you feel kinda forced into certain paths (I wanted to be a spellsword, so blade and fire was the obvious choice. What other magic combines with fire? Death and death. Done, too easy). There is air magic, there is fire magic. There is no fire tornado combo. That's called a missed opportunity.

I can't really comment on the system past that because I don't feel 6 hours is enough experience.

 

You is the 'R' key to combine with the keyboard only. Check out this quick sheet;
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/quick-reference-card-sheet-for-sota.14285/

Why the random draw isn't the starter is due to people like those above.

More combos coming every test release. R17 seems to get a lot of them.

And welcome to the game
=)

 

@MalakBrightpalm @darkthrone451
Again. Some people have issues with the random deck others really like it.

Your type of posts calling people unintelligent or liars because they find something more fun than something else is just (everyone sing along this time)
an inflammatory exercise in futility.

Insults or poor arguments will not sway those who like / dislike this system, to suddenly reverse this opinion.
So just like you cannot be pursuaded by insults & poor arguments to like this random deck system, neither will that treatment persuade anyone who likes the system to suddenly dislike it.

So skip the drama please and focus on what you dont like and concrete suggestions on how to fix it.
And no "scrap the random deck system" isn't a concrete suggestion on how to fix things since then you'd simply trade seats with those who like it and they will be the ones ranting like you do now.

 

Very handy link. Not sure what you mean about "R". Are you saying R+numbers could be used for combining since R is unused? If so then I think that would work fairly well.

 

the pic on that link is old, you need to follow to the google docs there to find this:
"R Combine combat glyphs for Combos (Press R, Glpyh, Glyph)"
So pressing
R 3 5
would combine glyphs in slot 3 & 5. (If possible).

 

Very nice! Glad they already thought of that and implemented it! Can UI elements be repositioned? If so then just slide the hotbar up a bit and your focus issues are pretty much gone.

 

It starts out locked because at level 1 you don't have enough skills to make a decent deck.

 

Yes. In R16 you can reposition the hotbar. However you can only do it in peace mode, not while in combat. There is a small triangle in the center of the hotbar which you can use to drag it where you want it.

I placed it high so that it would be above my char and next to any health bars in the upper left corner.

 

redacted... Ill move on.

 

Well I found out you don't even have to hold R, you just tap it and then quickly tap the keys for what you want to combine. Makes it a breeze, really. Then I bumped the hotbar up just a tad so it sits below my character instead of at the very bottom of the screen and now I'm not spending too much time on the hotbar. Is the R function mentioned in the tutorial? I don't recall seeing it and that hotkey has made a HUGE improvement for me. Also, I couldn't find a way to reposition the health/focus bars. I'd much rather have them near my hotbar instead of hiding up in the corner out of sight. Some people don't like having things cluttering the middle of the screen, I get that. I, and I believe at least a few others, would prefer to have them sitting where we can see them at a glance.

I guess they could tweak the UI to make it a bit prettier. Having the hotbar fade out with a slider to set the fade amount/delay when not in use is a common and very nice feature in MMOs and RPGs and I'd like to have it in SOTA. Bonus points if they made it moddable with an addon system like TSW/ESO/WoW. I know that's going to come under fire from some people because "ew no don't make it like those themeparks" but there's absolutely nothing wrong with letting players customize their UI a little. I actually like the deck system. I personally don't think it's the deck system that is flawed, I think the skills/combos themselves need work and it looks like they are getting it.

Also, ^ that ^ is called constructive feedback. It's specific ideas on how to improve the game. It's a lot more useful than "ugh it's DoA just scrap the whole thing" and "everyone who disagrees is just an *insult of choice here* so shut up". You've gotta say more than just "I don't like it and everyone is wrong", try pointing out exactly what the flaws in the system are beyond "it's wonky". I can't imagine the meetings where they get together and say "Well guys, looks like we're going to just have to remove the wonky because the players aren't liking it as much as we thought they would."

 

Problem is a lot of people here have a hard time with basic definitions of words. Trying to discuss why a system doesn't work and breaking it down only for an opponent of the idea to say "No it isn't because by logging into the game, I've proven that nothing in the combat system is random" makes it difficult to continue on with a particular idea. Or "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man," when it's plastered all over reviews and comments throughout gaming websites, clearly illustrating people have a fundamental issue with the system for a variety of reasons, trying to write off your reasons with casual disdain.

I don't know how long you've been on the forums or playing; I've only been here since early to mid February. But this combat design has been criticized since it was announced last year, and back then it was just the initial detractors. Now it's people who've backed hundreds if not thousands of dollars who, last year, once fervently defended the card system on the same principles of "give it time" or "try help making it work". Enough time with the system has changed a lot of people's minds who were gung-ho on the system, while others have written this off altogether. This isn't, by far, the only thread on combat to have been made, and as beta/launch draws "closer" (whenever that might be), it certainly won't be the last.

 

I'm currently picking through this thread and others to see what the major complaints are. Personally, I don't have any major complaints with the deck system itself, and it's not because I'm a diehard fan of Lord British or the Ultima series so I'm willing to put up with anything he does. I'm not a fan of Lord British and I was born in '93 so I missed the whole Ultima age. I have honestly never played a single Ultima game, the most experience I have with it is playing the very much UO-inspired Mortal Online. I saw a lot of complaints about RNG and someone brought up cards you don't want showing up in your hand, and mind wipe being a sign that the system is flawed. I gotta disagree. It's a deck of cards. Treat it like a deck of cards. If you don't want a card to show up then don't put it in your deck, you can set up multiple decks for different situations, just like people have multiple decks in any card game like Magic: The Gathering for different playstyles. Also, Mind Wipe exists in every card game I know of. Discard your hand and draw x cards. It's in all of 'em. It makes perfect sense for it to be in this one and I would be very disappointed if it wasn't because it's a very handy card. As for being glued to the hotbar, I just went on a journey of discovery that you can see above involving a very helpful Spoon and learned that I can use R to combine cards. That was a game-changer. You don't have to use the clunky mouse system, and I'll say it a second time that the R hotkey needs to be mentioned in the tutorial.

DISCLAIMERS: Gotta have a disclaimer section because I just know someone's going to pick apart what I said above. First, @Dewderonomy none of that was directed specifically at you and neither is any of the following, though it was in reply to you. Don't feel like I'm attacking you. Second, yes I'm younger than a lot of you old Ultima vets, don't hold that against me. I'm not holding the fact that you're an old fart with declining mental capabilities and failing eyesight against you, right? Third, when I say "card game" I mean CCGs like Magic: The Gathering, not Go Fish or Uno. Lastly, I'll say once again that I'm still new to the game and if there's something objective I'm missing then go ahead and educate me. I won't hate you for it.

 

(The system is clearly too far removed from any of the other Ultima games for anyone with any sense to be continuing to argue in that direction.)

Some people are arguing to remove the glyph system altogether, but a lot of us are simply trying to make the system better. I don't hate it because it's "cards", I dislike the poorly designed interface.

Maybe you've played Etherlords, Baten Kaitos, Card Hunter... there are a number of card- and deck-based RPG hybrids out there that are less of a pain to play. Perhaps it's also because you haven't been playing since the very first iteration of combat - after a while, the current system/interface gets really tedious.

The R key doesn't really save you time in comparison to mouse click/drag. Try hitting R-7-8-7 without looking at your keyboard during tense combat, its not that easy.