The Combat System....

I've made several threads talking about specific solutions and reworks to the system, but they just never get as much traction as threads that are just full of complaints, which is somewhat discouraging.

Ultimately there is just no real way to fix it. The reason people don't like the glyph system is because it breaks immersion. When you want your character to move you don't think "Ok, hold W, tap Q a few times while holding right mouse button and draging about an inch to the left, hit space in 3, 2, 1, and let go of W" you just think "Ok, run over here, turn left and jump". The combat system takes that away from you, and there is simply no fixing that without having your inputs tied directly to your characters actions, instead of being first piped through a tile matching game.

 

The topic reaches into multiple facets of the game because combat affects multiple facets of the game. The reason combat is so important to many of us is because we know, come 2016, the other elements of SotA simply will not stand up to games of the future. Want to talk about immersion, environment interaction, decorating homes, exploration?

Star Citizen Grabby Hands Demo

I'm all ears.

 

And some people shouldn't review playtest commentary, they don't seem to understand that negative feedback is part of the point of playtesting.

 

I'd like to hear some input. Might be missing something but the only concern i've heard is about the focus cost. And combo's too i reckon.

I've been playign melee with the locked bar and the focus cost, to me, Doesn't seem so bad. Its alot worse for higher tier spells, and the cooldown on focus potions seems to be way too long to compensate with a consumable.

potions cost a ton at the moment as well. so it's not reallypractical anyways. Having high focus regen and high focus makes it a bunch easier, but if you refuse to use deck until you have the focus to support locked, then your up a creek. But then again the deck folks are in a similar creek initially, just not for as long.

And if they impliment those innate skill restrictions they talked about, locked bars are about to get even harder to use

I think the itnention of having lock skilsl cost mroe focus, is that you arent sittign there fireing them off really fast like you will be doing with a deck, but to be honest, when usign a deck, i forget i even have focus unless im heavily reliant on spells. Last release i played a fire/melee hybrid that was heavily focused on DoT AoEs and offhand attacks, and i was always running out of focus very fast in deck mode, in locked mode it wasnt as efective, but i had the same focus issue with it.

But i really think the cooldowns on locked consumables need to be at LEAST cut in half

 

I agree that consumables need to get some special treatment, otherwise there is little use to have them.
And we need those consumables to drive the crafting economy.

My personal opinion is that Focus and Health regen needs to be at least halved or even quartered.

Then for consumables there should be a time where I use them (ie drink a potion) where they can be interrupted, but once used there should be no cooldown at all.

Then they should be in a seperate hotbar, they shouldn't take up slots.

 

I actually have no interest in consumable potions, and refuse to use them in any game. Since SotA has them, I just hope there are alternatives to using them to be successful in combat. And I really hope they have negative effects to counteract their positive effects.

 

Well I think it depends on the game.

My opinion is derived from the Crafting Economy side. Since consumables & wear are a big thing to make that work then consumables should get a more prominent position.

As is right now I ignore all potions since they are not worth it.

The only consumables I've used the last 6-7 releases is Smelling Salts for PvP and the S.O.O.O. for fun.
If that is how it will be going forward then the Crafting Economy will take a hard hit.

 

I agree that you should be fine without potions. Consumables tend to detract from the game, not add to it, because it just slaps everyone with a bunch of upkeep if they are required to be competitive.

Making combat a lot less fun for people by making them constantly buy potions is an awful way of trying to prop up a game economy.

 

Hmm, I might need to rephrase that one.

I don't want consumables to be "necessary", but I do want them to be a viable option.
Right now they are not a viable option.

 

Yea, I agree with that. If someone genuinely enjoys using consumable items as the mainstay of their build they should definitely not be horribly penalized for using them.

The huge cooldown on potions that has become common in MMOs is the result of how consumables can completely throw combat out of whack though. There were some older games where rapidly consuming huge amounts of health potions could reduce an entire fight to nothing more than who has more potions.

I really liked how The Witcher 2 did Alchemy, because they changed it up from Witcher 1 where alchemy wasn't a play-style but instead was simply a system of various buffs and effects that stacked with everything else you were doing. In Witcher 2 they changed it to have its own distinct skill tree that ran entirely on creating potions and bombs from materials in the world to fight. That way the people who really enjoyed alchemy got more out of it, since it was a full fledged play style now, and the people who didn't enjoy it didn't have to use it. Looking forward to seeing how Witcher 3 is going to do this.

 

That was exactly what I was thinking of suggesting for SotA as I read through this latest tangent. I too agree that consumables can be very frustrating detractors. The way I see it, they are good for those new to an area, or a skillset, by giving a weak or untrained character a leg up. I can accept the "flasks persist through death" idea I encountered in WoW, where those about to embark on a truly epic group undertaking drank super-expensive potions that took them to their absolute best for two hours, rain or shine... there was at least a niche for that. But potions as a way of dealing with day to day, hour to hour gaming on an advanced character generally sucks.

I was thinking that the noncombat skills could be used to further customize our characters, bringing compatible, but not necessary, abilities into the player's field of options. Not just ways of making money, but craft specific paths to healing, quest completion, and yes, combat. Alchemy seems ideal for such a use. Perhaps there is an inherent cooldown on potions, but a master alchemist has learned how to balance potions in such a way that he or she can drink them much faster, pounding down focus potions, heal potions, resist potions, and berzerk potions to become a devastating warrior, while the supply lasts. That could indeed be fun for those who favor such a playstyle.

 

This is the quote from the Original Poster of this thread.

This exactly. It's boring. I only play games for Combat and PvP.... This PvE is super boring. The PvP is super boring..... I can sit here and drink a coffee while I PvP hot keying away..... Try playing God of War for Playstation with a coffee.... That combat is extremely engaging and takes tons of skill, timing, moving....

This combat takes zero skill... Just hitting hotkeys and staring at the hotbar timers... I'm not even watching combat really... I was expecting something different.

This Combat needs to be engaging... Currently, it's not at all. It's really, really, boring....... I can not play this game if this is what combat is... To me, combat is the most important feature in a game... unfortunately for SotA, combat is one of the worst features.... I could care less about collecting ore, hides and crafting stuff... Where is the combat? Where is the action and engagement? The rest of the game should be built around combat, PvE or PvP.... It shouldn't be a boring side note...

What's the point of adventuring around, collecting resources, building weapons, armour, gearing up your character for weeks and months... finally max out your skills, equip all your best stuff all for some super boring and lame combat? No Thanks.

Sorry. This is unplayable.

 

I agree lets make Locked Deck as competitive as Dynamic Deck, don't make us feel punished for using it.

 

God of war? takes tons of skill? I am... I don't... I don't even know.... God of war combat? Is that really what you are asking for?

 

Is there really a difference between GoW quick time events and the deck system? Quick times were cool a decade ago. Resident Evil 6 got panned for being one string of quick time events. They both take you out of the action and all you do is wait for buttons to pop up, looking away from the cool stuff you're doing to play DDR with your fingers. Difference in, between the quick time events, at least there's another, immersive game to play (like in GoW); sadly for SotA, it's just all one quick time event in combat.

 

I consider GoW a mindless button masher with a little bit of push the buttons we show you on the screen.. no thought/strategy/tactics really needed. It's fun for what it is. But it also isn't my favorite combat... my favorite combat is actually turn based strategy rpg.. something like shining force. or possibly early final fantasy games.

To attempt to compare the combat system in SoTA to GoW just shows what insane lengths you will go to in order to say you don't like the combat system. I agree, the combat system isn't fun currently. It can be fun while maintaining an optional random system. But your posts are ridiculous.

 

I finished god of war in less than a day.

 

How?

 

I made a post in the dev+ section (hoping for some Chris feedback)

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...uture-of-the-combat-system.24985/#post-357448


No reason I can't share my post here though:

I think with the negativity surrounding the combat system we should accept some realities. The random deck should be considered an optional system that less than half of people actually would like to use. The locked system should be the standard. Going back to your run of the mill mmorpg. (I'll be one of the people who still prefers the random).

What changes need to be made in order for locked system to feel like a standard and fine choice? Locked skills probably shouldn't have a focus penalty. The cooldown should be sufficient. I view the random deck system as a cool down management.

UI should be easily managed/customized. That means we should have access to any number of slots for abilities. I envision a UI management mode, where we can add and position slots anywhere on our screen, with a check box for snap to grid or free mode to position them anywhere. and a toggle between combat bar and out of combat bar so we can manage those as well. Another thing, as has been suggested before, allow a mode for locking a skill to a certain slot, even in the standard system. Just display a number for how many of those skills you currently have up, and stop dealing out skills even if you have open slots, it tracks available skills, not slots. -change the additional slots focus skill, to additional skills.


Skills. Skills need some work, they aren't all still in and I imagine that new/fun animations will be added to various skills The glyphs are interesting and unique.. but when I double thrust, I'd like a neat engaging animation - Maybe something more over the top than RG would like to see. Something about the current skills feels... generic.. I'd like a thread filled with ways to improve on existing skills. One thing I'd like to see is more synergy(hate that word) between different schools of magic skills.. where using the locked system someone sees a good value in combining one skill with another, a combo system outside of the combo system Use one ability followed up by a second ability. It wont be as potent, but should have additional affects.

The other thing is consider removing the "tree" and simply make "tiers" ... 5 points in this skill group gets you to tier 2 skills... that type of thing.. that way we no longer have to put points in skills we don't want.


In Combat movement. The cover system is intereseting, but I worry it will keep people rooted, we need to get people moving.. both to get them out of their cover and to make combat more engaging. This will likely drive the number of people who continue to choose the random system even lower. However, we need to feel like we have to watch our opponent. Even if that means you put a red spot on the ground so we know don't stand here.. FF14 did a great job with that. Alternatives is animated "charge up" -NPCs and PC's can both produce these, a "casting time" for certain abilities.. These could possibly be interrupted as well with the right spell/skill.


Most people seem unhappy with the current system. I believe there are plans to make combat more fun, more engaging. Some confirmation from the Dev's of future plans might aid in current sentiment. I still enjoy the random deck building mechanic and believe even if I'm watching the action I can still function with the deck system(I really like the system). I might be a minority, but I believe leaving the random in place, and making the locked system work better and feel more intuitive and introducing the random system as an optional system for those who want something different is the way to go.

Thanks.

 

As did I. I think I bought GoW in the morning, went back and bought GoWII and beat that before bed, all in the same day.

Still had a friggin' blast playing 'em, though. Replayed 'em on whatever the hardest (God Mode?) was, and that wasn't quite as quick. Definitely not "button mashing" when you can be two-shotted.