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The Dragon is soloable in Grumvald.

Discussion in 'Release 28 Feedback Forum' started by Duke William of Serenite, Apr 4, 2016.

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  1. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

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    perhaps a single player quest to kill the dragon that provides a way to kill it.

    so tired of hearing about the single player entitlement, it's like a glass of sour milk, sometimes you just cant get the smell out of your nose.
     
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  2. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Then you know how we SP fans feel about the MMO entitlement ;)
     
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  3. Wodin Folkvardr

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    All these things would be great; we've seen plenty of boss fights in other games (will not name any since it'll make others want to send me to Valhalla instantly) that require kiting bosses into traps, taking advantage of openings, performing tasks in certain situations and that all makes the fights more interesting in my opinion. The problem is that all of these things require mechanics, mechanics that have hardly even become present in this game yet. So far we've only really seen trivial things such as "jump when he stomps" style mechanics.

    This all needs to be broadened GREATLY if we are going to see any interesting fights instead of just stacking GM's and stats to complete content.

    ~Wodin

    P.S. My previous post was a joke - I don't care if anyone can solo dragons in SPO - I just don't want to solo them in MP otherwise MP becomes just a group for social/group for ease game instead of real team work.
     
  4. Gix

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    I have never seen a post that has people screaming endlessly "but what about the online? I want to do X online! I pledged because I wanted online, so I expect a true online experience on release! Man, these single-player folks are annoying! All they want is stupid things when the game should cater to me and my sophisticated tastes."
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
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  5. Smalls

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    It gets annoying, on both fronts im sure, I personally want a Great Mirror to 98. Some want a Mirror to 89-94. Hopefully in the end we all get a taste of what we want. Enough to satisfy us until Ep2. Lets try to keep it as civil as possible in the meantime.
     
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  6. Xi_

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    those entitlements were nixed 2 years ago so ... meh, you won already, so no, I don't know how sp fans feel.
     
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  7. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Really? With so man PvP threads about full loot etc.? ;)
     
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  8. Wodin Folkvardr

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    You should know better Darkmoon, it isn't MMO vs SP... It's MMO vs SP vs PvE vs PvP vs Crafter vs Social.

    Just when you thought we were all on the same team trying to make a great game.. oh wait.

    ~Wodin
     
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  9. Dirk Hammerstrike

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    Meh. Its not hard to make the mob difficulty different depending on whether they're logged solo or MMO.
     
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  10. Leostorm

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    Get ready :) This will be the solution for SP and MP in a way.
    But seriously, the AI should impove to allow the dragon to debuff itself and expand to more attacks and on its targeting AI to easily tell that if out of range to start just fire bombing. That will come in time and I suspect we will see mobs AI increase when we see the compaions come in as they will have to create a decent functioning AI for them (hp checks for heals, multi target range checking for AoE, ext). This will naturaly allow them add those functions to mobs. And all will be the better for it. both mp and sp, yay lets hold hands.
     
  11. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Of course I want a great game. A great single player experience and a great MMO. But I don't want the SP experience to suffer from the MMO elements. Right now I see so many compromises that have to be made and I really think that it is enough.
    I just don't want the SP experience to be inferior to the MMO experience. So if I have to fight a dragon in SP alone I should be able to kill it, provided my hero is strong enough (or gets help from NPC companions). I would feel cheated if I meet a dragon but I wouldn't be able to kill it because it was designed for MMO mode. This doesn't mean that a dragon can't be balanced differently when playing in a group so that then more players would be needed to defeat it. But playing alone I should be able to do it, too.
     
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  12. Womby

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    There are two approaches to setting difficulty level in both online and offline mode.

    One is to have fixed levels. That's the simplest. You quickly learn if a place or boss is too hard for you. In SotA that information is readily available through colour coding. The downside is that you may have to wait a very long time before you have levelled up sufficiently to complete a quest.

    The other is to scale the difficulty to the player(s). That's a little more complicated, but doable. The downside however is that you can lose all sense of progression, since you can always tackle every creature.

    A compromise is to scale the difficulty for areas and bosses that are required to progress the story line (these are generally single player only scenes like The Necropolis or Malice, which makes it easy to implement), and set fixed difficulty levels for the rest.

    As for non quest scenes in online mode, I think the difficulty of some bosses should be scaled to the number of people in the party, but not to their skill level (e.g. increase the boss's HP in response to the number of people in the party). In other words, a large party of average skill could be slaughtered, but a single player of exceptional skill should succeed.
     
  13. Wodin Folkvardr

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    Here's something interesting for you all to read that is very interesting and on point in my opinion. Perhaps it'll give all the gaming separatists something to think about where we "should" be headed instead of the common "TURN IT UP TO 11" mentality. I just hope that @Chris and the rest of the developers have goals on what the combat should be like and not let the community "drag" (haha dragon thread) them into bad choices and easy fixes.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134503/boss_battle_design_and_structure.php?print=1

    ~Wodin
     
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  14. Sara Dreygon

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    Is your point that - moving forward - the devs should always ensure bosses they create in the game can be solo'd with the reason for this being that there are two single player modes and if a boss for some reason cannot be solo'd then they should nerf said boss until it is soloable?
     
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  15. Gix

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    You mean the tons of threads about a subject matter that has zero impact on the single-player experience? You don't say?

    Good luck killing full-grown dragons without companions in Pillars of Eternity.
     
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  16. Lord_Darkmoon

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    A boss should be scaled to the mode we play in. If I fight him in SP mode of course he should be challenging but I should be able to kill him.
    Normally I am against enemy scaling but in this case I can't see any other solution without one group (SP and MMO players) having a disadvantage.
     
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  17. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Actually I think that devoting time to PvP does have an impact on single player but that is not important now. Granted, we have many threads with complaints about the SP mode(s) but we have much more threads with complaints about PvP and other MMO related topics. Yet it seems that opening thread after thread about PvP and discussing this topic and complaining about it is ok but doing this for SP topics is not.

    I don't know if it is true but I read that Pillars can be beaten without a party. But the point is, in SP mode I should be able to defeat a dragon either with NPC companions or with interesting gameplay mechanics like traps etc.
     
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  18. Gix

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    The online components takes more time to create because they simply take more time to create. That's just the reality of having to code and troubleshoot all the connected pieces; it's more complicated. They've BARELY started adding content to the game.

    If you follow our discussion history, you'll notice that I always fought against your idea that SP and MP should be designed completely separately merely on the notion you can't imagine MP to have any sort of complex story or NPC behavior. You have that "only single-player matters" way of asking for features that is really irritating all the while saying stuff like "MMO fans are this or that".
    To quote you from another thread: "Immersion is something that is important for a story-driven game that wants to create a simulated world. But MMO fans don't care about those things as they expect something else from an MMORPG. Immersion is not a priority."

    There's another (parallel) discussion that Lum replied to:
     
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  19. KuBaTRiZeS

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    And here you are, still talking about the implications regarding the differences between each game mode instead of being constructive and discussing what BOTH modes could get from this. I'll move to a second plane waiting for things to move to a point worth of my time. Isn't it amazing how so many people willing to make a new game using the good old things can't move forward from the bad old things? because it can happen.
    Just QFT. Also, I think that because a concern is justified that doesn't mean that it should be brought up in every single topic. But don't mind me, i'll be just spectating ;)

    /me sits with Katrina Bekers and asks for some popcorn pwease
     
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  20. Lord_Darkmoon

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    I don't want to argue.
    Suffice to say that the SP part of SotA is very important for me and I don't want the MMO features of SotA to lead to an inferior SP part, something that is only tacked on instead of being an equal part to the MMO mode.
    If I can fight and kill a dragon in offline mode then I am happy. If we need more than one player to kill it in online mode, then ok.
     
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