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The Fall

Discussion in 'Release 28 Feedback Forum' started by Skyo, Apr 5, 2016.

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  1. Skyo

    Skyo Avatar

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    After playing the rise and enjoying all the way through it's very apparent that a complex dungeon system can be executed flawlessly by the dev team.

    As I think a lot of the feedback suggests the rise has been one of the most challenging and fun experiences with in the game so far. Naturally players want more.

    In line with the dev team's commitment of makiing pvp areas more rewarding because their is more risk I had had an idea:

    The fall should support double or quadruple ransoms. The Fall should have the best XP in the game but also be incredibly dangerous.

    There should also be a great room with in the fall that works similar to a control point. All members working the control point would be completing more and more complex waves and all along unlocking areas within the fall.

    The guild that controls this control point sort of experience gains a certain cool buff for all members for 24hr.

    Maybe all gained experience within the fall escalates based off of how many mobs you have killed within the fall. BUT you can lose up to half your exp gained within the fall if you are killed by another player.

    The final unlocked Passage from the final stage of the control Point unlocks the lower level where DOZENS of high level bosses are hidden, if you dare discover their evil.

    Anyway it shakes out I know @Chris and this dev team will deliver on something way more challenging than the Rise!!!
     
  2. Weins201

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    Sorry but you are going down the road of leading Sheep to the Wolves and if path is even wandered down they are going to slide down a path that if they take are going to back themselves into a corner.And more SWAG than Feedback.

    more overly excessive rewards for PvP, so once again NOPE this is not feedback but SWAG

    This is not feedback but stuff you want to add.
     
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  3. Leostorm

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    Good thoughts forward though.
    The fall should have a "reason" for people wanting to go there.
    There does need to be some form of reward for the risk.

    But it may just be an underground shardfall with the same basic rules, just simply set underground and connected to that network for those that like that setting.
    Id imagine to see a lot of traps in the fall.

    But if they did like a larger kill loot pool then id guess thatd be reward enough, but I doubt that happens.
    And no to the "best xp" part
     
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  4. Weins201

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    That is just fine but dobling exp, more loot / MORE, more, ....... MORE is not what PvP is about.
     
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  5. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    From my experience with different MMO PVP games (especially UO free shards), the best PVP tends to be the one that has the least carrots and not convoluted with PVE. A lot of time, this type of "hotspot" turned into to semi-afk farming for big guild when the area become unchallenged.

    If anything to increase the chance of PVP participation, would be some sort of handicap system to make the lesser level people have some minimal chance to survive against the top dog (instead of getting one-shot dead). Even that, some PvPers who spent a lot of time building up characters may not like the idea.
     
  6. Weins201

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    And this is exactly why they need to NOT implement any of these "carrots" as you called them

    No to EXP
    No to Loot
    and
    No to Resources

    PvP is in itself the reward
     
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  7. Skyo

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    Except for you you're completely wrong. Right now currently there is absolutely no reward for PVP. The Ransom system is weak although very interesting. Paying 200 gold to get your item back is no sort of reward.

    PVP is fun if that's what you meant to say. Unfortunately there is very little PVP actually happening on the server, as there are only limited zones where this can take place.

    As there is no way to locate other flagged PVPers and no system in place to engage in this activity, within the game. Thus my coaching for you would to be too gain the Skill you need to survive in this type of environment, as the fall will be a pvp area.

    Pvp adds a tremendous amount of replayability to games. Just because you can't, or don't enjoy, or are not skilled enough to test your abilities against another human, doesn't mean that incentives should be offered to high-risk high-reward situations. Players that are either indecisive or have never engaged in this type of gaming environment before, should be incentivized to try something new.

    I'm generating feedback that I think is directly in line with what the devs and community have already stated is important to them.
     
  8. Turk Key

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    I'm ok with high risk giving higher rewards. But this should apply to high risk PVE areas too.
     
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  9. Beaumaris

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    This is a really encouraging opening post, thanks for that.

    I admit to (mostly) avoiding dungeons until final wipe to save the surprise for 'when they are done.' This was a conscious decision. As someone old enough to think that SOTA might be my last great online game (gosh I hope I am not that old, but who knows?), I have beta tested plenty of fantastic games. In the process I found that dungeons (much more so than overland adventure) tend to be very memorable experiences that stick with me for ... decades. I really want to capture ...and savor... that with a 'permanent' character experience.

    But I have to say, from the news stories, posts, maps, the vibe, and what not, I am starting to get the picture that the underworld experience (and potential) in SOTA may be far under-rated in general. I mean, what other game has an underworld connecting most areas of the game? Its an underrated feature of SOTA, IMHO. I'm really excited about that feature. And looking forward to my time after the July final wipe. It is cool to see the potential of 'old school' world building and gaming rise again. The concept of The Rise just feels good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
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  10. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    If you like PVP - like I do - you shouldn't want rewards for it.

    PVP is its own reward. Winning over another human is the prize.

    Asking for other rewards is despising PVP, and just wanting cheap stuff.
     
  11. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    ...Or, in other words, exactly, what high risk there is for a lvl100, 30+ GM player farming newbies, exactly?

    Hypocrisy at its best.
     
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  12. Skyo

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    It just so happens that I also enjoy pvp.https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/just-going-to-leave-this-here.48391/

    There are some duels that happen now and again within pvp but a flagged player engaging another flagged player in the game is not taking place. Thus the incentives for a high risk/high reward situation.

    @Chris can you pull the number of pvp flagged characters engaging other pvp flagged characters and see what my concern is, that I'm confident the data will reflect!?
     
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  13. Wodin Folkvardr

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    Interesting idea's but honestly I think both sides of this debate have valid arguments.

    On one hand I definitely see where people are saying no to extra "carrots" (keeping it in thread context) for pvping. Since PvP requires two human sides it is much to easy for people to collaborate and exploit the rewards or turn it into largest zerg gets ahead and no one can compete with them since there is no way to "catch up" if they hold the best farming place in the game.

    On the other hand I see what @Skyo is saying and I too would be interested in seeing the stats of flagged players battling organically in the world, my guess is pretty low. Being one of the people mentioned for most pvp kills in that one week I can state that 98% of those kills were in 1v1 consensual duels. There needs to be some reason to flag for pvp, pvping in and of itself is not enough. No game I can think of has a model of "PvP for the sake of PvPing". There is always some kind of goal; Ranks, Exclusive PvP gear, Leaderboards, Pets, Skins, Titles, what have you.

    So how do we get more people to be interested in flagging pvp without upsetting the games balance and making PvE players feel like they are being excluded from content?

    In my opinion (and someone may have mentioned this before) we should create a "Bounty Board" that contains a dynamic list of players who have gotten player kills. Lets say the top 50 players with the most player kills. The number of kills continues to climb as players kill "UNIQUE" players (to avoid farming your friends). People will be able to see this list to target and go after PK'ers and receive a small gold reward and get a notoriety point for being a bringer of justice. If a PKer dies they have their kills reset and they will need to climb back up the ladder. If they log out or move to friends only/SPO then they are removed from the list but keep their kills so when they come back they will be placed back on the list. If the PKer's remove their PvP flag then they will have their kills and status purged.

    Just flinging idea's but I think being able to gain notoriety/titles and getting a set of pixels to say their name on a most wanted board would be enticing to enough people to make things interesting.

    In its current state flagging for PvP is not worth it because not only do you run higher risk of death (non-flagged players will ALWAYS get first hit which can be game deciding) but you can also be pick pocketed by opportunists, for what? Hopes that someone will see your flag as an invitation to fight and hoping they underestimated your strength so you can win? Not worth it. Right now the only flagged PvPers are people who are way above average in the level/experience departmental and those with the courage of Odin himself who will remain flagged regardless of their relative power on principal.

    Just my thoughts,
    ~Wodin
     
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  14. Weins201

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    Firstly do not insult me like that.
    Secondly you are asking for rewards for PvP, NOT incentives.

    Seeing other PvP players and locating them to engage them is a whole other aspect that is not a Reward, but something they do need to work on.

    Two totally diffent ideas at play here ;

    One - Rewards for being PvP = Nope your reward is an intelligent target
    Two - locating other PvP players and getting them together = yes this needs work --- but adding more rewards for flagging or entering a PvP zone is NOT the answer.
     
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  15. Wodin Folkvardr

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    Nothing I stated is really much a reward; They are superficial ego boosters that allow PvPer's to be recognized for their work in the same way that being good at crafting = better gear or being better at farming levels = more gms or playing the economy = a bigger home. Right now there's no way to tell who's a successful PvPer and who isn't. I think many PvP players are competitive so largely recognition is a good carrot, but they do need a way and reason for people to actually participate without hurting PvPers experience as well.

    I'm not saying force PvP on people who don't want it, nor am I suggesting giving PvPers an "edge". Lock us up on an island to play Hunger Games away from the rest of the population if that's what you guys want, but give us a reason. I don't want to hurt PvEer's experience, and I in no way shape or form try to "trick" people into combat if they don't want it. But by my ethics it means my pvp experience in Sota has been strictly limited to 1 PK and the rest have been duels which is more of a spar than real pvp.

    ~Wodin
     
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  16. Lord Andernut

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    For me this is a bit of a puzzler. I'm just curious, what incentives would you add to PvP that you would not consider being rewards?


    I found the OP kind of interesting in that they could make higher level zones have higher penalties for things like death (not PvP, just death in general). Right now death feels relatively meaningless, though as you get rather expensive equipment to maintain perhaps it's breakdown is enough.

    I don't want death to be overly punitive, but I feel there should be some reason you'd want to avoid it other than having to float for 20 seconds towards an ankh.
     
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