The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by antalicus, Aug 28, 2013.

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  1. antalicus

    antalicus Avatar

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    Back in the day, around the period that UO first came out, your view of fellow gamers was limited. You thought everyone was a similar gamer as you. Today you have probably been exposed to quite a few players that you believe to be rotten to the core. In a true open game it allows these very people to have full reign on terrorizing you, and that irks you. You live by the motto, "sticks and stones may break my bones but words may never hurt me" and these people just happen to be armed with those very weapons.

    You can be that person who sees the glass as half empty or someone who sees this as an opportunity to actually be able to do something about these types of players. The fact is that I like to have choices and dislike game elements that are essentially like invisible walls that are only there because the game stops and there is no code written for what happens next.

    So, if you do not find the bad player as an asset to your experience, because what’s a hero without a villain, then maybe it’s best to stick to the single player and selective multiplayer elements of the game. In the long run, whether or not there is open PvP and full loot, those bad players will still be there harassing you, and I’d much rather be armed with something other than words.
     
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  2. Devoid

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    OH BOY! OH BOY! OH BOY!
    Another PvP thread, my favourite!
    *Gets all excited*
    Um...
    <.<
    >.>
    I don't have anything new to add to the topic...
    *Sigh*
    -.-
     
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  3. vjek

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    Options that have developed over the past 15+ years since UO launched:

    /ignore

    and

    At least 16 other persistent multiplayer online games that don't feature open pvp and full loot.

    The early months/years of UO were an anomaly, and will never happen again in any meaningful way, as long as there is one other game in the genre allowing customers a choice.

    I will bet 1 gold piece that /ignore in every multi-player SotA mode except OPO-PvP could also visually mute a player, in addition to muting everything they say.
     
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  4. Mugly Wumple

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    I'm curious what you think that opportunity might be? Oh, I see this is in the PvP sub-forum. You must mean engage them in their playstyle. I think you may be suffiering from the same "Everyone plays like me" syndrome - that type of playstyle that drives up the adrenaline, that offers a tactile challenge, competition and the ability to rank oneself against others.

    Do you think I might challenge them to a poetry contest? Maybe invite then to a cooperative game of earthball? Offer them a cuppa?
     
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  5. antalicus

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    Of course there are the straightlaced killjoy types that want to take an open game and remove functions to carve the game into their liking. The end result is no longer an open sandbox game but a cookie cutter stereotype of what we already have "16 other persistent multiplayer games" to choose from.
     
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  6. Mugly Wumple

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    Along with the straightlaced killjoys lets not forget the testosterone-fueled manchild who wants nothing less than a full on dog-eat-dog world where the weak are just wimps and not real gamers.
     
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  7. antalicus

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    Is it so wrong to want a game world that is more like an actual world with options and risks?

    Mugly Wumple likes to Mugly Lumple all Open PvPers into the same category. Is our world 100% testosterone-fueled manchildren who feed on the weak?

    Game developers are not making successful Open PvP full loot games because they can’t tackle the scripting involved to make it work. It’s a bit more than an on/off button. UO was almost there and you would think with the advances over 16 years they could make it better with the same theory using some of the very same developers.
     
  8. Mugly Wumple

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    I said nothing of the sort. Just like you, I characterized an extreme minority of a larger community.
     
  9. Phredicon

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    Why do we keep having a thread like this created every week? Wouldn't it be more productive to add your voice to the chorus of people wanting open PvP with full loot in one of the constantly active threads discussing it?

    It's as if people think "If I just phrase it THIS way, they'll be convinced they love PvP/PK/LOSING STUFF!"
     
  10. Mugly Wumple

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    The problem with full loot open PvP is that there are a lot of people, including me, that want nothing to do with it. I played UO from the start and for over 10 years. PvP was the bain of my playtime. I'm not saying that those who want it shouldn't get it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support my involvement in it in a game that I intend play. Have at it with other like-minded folks, but keep it away from me and my enjoyment of the social aspects of SotA.
     
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  11. Umbrae

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    In the real world there are risks and consequences to anti-social behavior which include full-time incarceration and perma-death. No game without these kind of consequences with ever simulate the real world, and there will always be walls. For example, murders will never be perma-deathed or permanently put in prison because that is "not fun". Open PVP Full Loot does not solve this. It only creates a perma-mob since bad behavior can exist without any true conscience.

    Not really sure what this thread is really trying to accomplish. Open PVP and Full Loot is not what's going to bring PVE focused players into the game. Its going to chase them away and it will be one of the many Open PVP games that only attract the Open PVP gamers and becomes a game focus on competition instead of RP.

    Now respecting the PVE focused players and their position, provide meaningful ways to allow them to experience PVP (which is what SOTA is about) and you might see them at the table. However, posts which seem to find some new way of politely (or not politely) talking down to them and telling them they don't know what their missing is really more counterproductive to the discussion.
     
  12. antalicus

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    The point is not to mimic real life to but to use attributes of it to help shape a game. Perma-death and imprisonment aside you can still add risk and prevent rampant PKing. Not that PKing in UO was ever rampant. That has really been thrown out of proportion and exagerated. Im not asking for a game that is centered around open PvPing and looting. I enjoyed those aspects in UO and got along fine many days with just PvEing and crafting.

    Why does it have to be either or and can never be both?
     
  13. Mugly Wumple

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    It is not a matter of both. Open PvP is the only mode of play that directly affects other players whether they want it or not. I can freely roleplay without having a material impact on others; I can craft; I can PvE; I can play the storyline. None of these impose a playstyle on others. Open PvP does impose a playstyle on others and has a material impact on them regardless of their choice.
     
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  14. Owain

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    Mugly Wumple has a perfectly valid point. Open PvP is not the game he is looking for. OPO PvE is probably what most people want, and there is nothing wrong with that. You could change the rules in the Sims Online to make it more like Grand Theft Auto, which might be more realistic for some, but that would probably piss off original SO players, so that would probably be a poor game design decision.

    It's a waste of time for me to try to 'convince' PvE player that they really should try open PvP, and the argument that it's more 'realistic' is probably the least effective argument of all. People don't PvE because it's just so darn realistic, you know. They PvE because, for them, PvE is fun.

    Let them have fun in their own way, and PvP players can have fun in our own way, but there is no real reason to try to proselytize in the forums. It won't work, and will only serve to annoy people.
     
  15. antalicus

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    With the options of single player, and selective multiplayer it is not imposing open pvp completely.

    I guess my strive for a system like this is because way back in the time when I played UO, if you asked me if I was a PvPer or a PvErs I would probably say a PvEer. I really enjoyed PvEing quite a bit. The fact that there was this chance that I could lose all of my gear in one fell swoop gave me more reason to PvE and enjoy it.

    Though I still enjoy PvE in most games it often times feels a bit meaningless. Why do I need to get more gear when I can’t lose what I already have?

    So to me, im not looking for a strictly PvE or PvP game because there are so many of those to choose form that have done that very well but very few if only one that ever did it decently.
     
  16. PrimeRib

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    Ya, I agree. "Open" seems to mean "a bunch of weird rules which favor criminals." I get a full loot game, if it has permadeath. I get an "open" PvP game if you can actually kill enemies. But the game is asymmetric. People who commit to an "evil" path, just find some way to hide their valuables with alts (or second accounts, same thing) and wash their bad karma. Only people with nothing to lose want to play this game.

    I love PvP. But it needs to be symmetric. Both people need the same skin in the game. Everyone should have a chance to beat everyone else.
     
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  17. Mugly Wumple

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    Despite what you may think, I do sympathize with those that want a full loot open PvP environment and I know that it's a type of play that has been given short shrift, for whatever reason. I hope that you can find a game that presents it full on, and I hope that SotA can accommodate at least a modicum of that type of play.

    It's not just about PvE or PvP. Frankly I'm not much interested in either. Although I'm not averse to whacking on monsters now and again, it's not why I'll be playing. Above all, I enjoy deep roleplay with a community, both friend and stranger - that's why OPO mode is important to me. Just as many have predicted a PvP flag, I'm hoping for a RP flag.
     
  18. Silent Strider

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    In this you seem to be my exact opposite; I love strict PvE and strict PvP, but I can't stand when the two are mixed.

    SotA should allow for both strict PvE and mixed PvP+PvE on the same server, though. If the dev's proposed instancing and grouping system works we should both get what we want.
     
  19. Silent Strider

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    One thing I really hope is that intentionally ruining RP can be punished by making the player unable to flag himself for RP for a while afterwards, so, while he keeps his ability to play, he would be unable to interact with the RP community for a time. This would help cut down on obnoxious behavior just to annoy RPers.
     
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  20. AuroraWR

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    I second this... or maybe it's third. I don't play UO or other games like this for fighting players for challenge or fighting dragons for challenge, I love the RP. If that leads to me fighting a player or a dragon then BRING IT ON! But, if I want to go around killing things for the sake of killing them, I'll play something else.
     
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