The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

You forgot the Underworlds! (Admitedly, UW1 was a cheezy tie-in with little link, but man, UW2 remains one of my favorites).

... and what do you mean 9? There is no 9.

 

BETRAYAL

Unfortunatly thats exactly what I thought about UO when it came out and time hasn't changed my mind on that. If the energy and resorces which had gone into UO had gone into U9 (and possibly more) what a brillant game we could have had.

 

Its a game and that DOES change the underlying psychological motivations. Or else any time a "griefer" saw someone in real life with something they want they would be killing them. I know kids that are griefers and they aren’t bad kids, or bad socializers, or careless. In fact many of the ones I know actively help others in not-for-profits and charities. They are just bad gamers.

Listen, you can go to a professional psychology forum and ask there. No one will agree with you on this. I may have only studied 2 years of Psychology, but I remember that much.

But its not even CLOSE to a match at all. and NO someone that intends to ruin the game is not likely to be a real life sociopath. This is a disgusting proposition you have made and GROSSLY inaccurate. I will say to you what I said to Magik... ask a professional. In NO way will a professional EVER look at how someone is playing a game and say "that's possibly a sociopath". The reason... its a game, not reality and a mentally stable subject know this.

Where is this article written about sociopath players in UO? I have no doubt they had problems with griefers. There was no world mechanic to react to that kind of role play. But I NEVER read anything release by UO, News, or other serious source in reguards to sociopath players.

You and I have spoken at length about this, but, I think the reason we are seeing threads like that on other site is because, in part, it might be possible that protecting one group of player from a word, but not another group of players is sending a message that may be invoking action toward protecting one side and prosecuting the other. Excuse the run on sentence.

The fact that others are seeing what I have been discussing with you and Starr, could mean it might be something more to pay attention to. I dont see the problem they are complaining about in that MMOPRG thread in any other forum on SotA other than this one; the PvP one.

Getting back to something you said "it isn't doing anyone here, or Shroud of the Avatar, any good what so ever." I have to agree... maybe some phrasing that protects Open PvP'ers too from these insinuations. I mean the thought of the discussion is even a little crass. I would argue it’s a more vicious and disgusting attack. At this point they aren’t just protesting play style like with that other word, they are attacking a persons character.

SotA will have that even in an "Open PvP" mode. LB made it clear in one of the videos(wish I remember which one) that Villages, Towns, Cities would be safe from PvP no matter what. So never fear you can be a beekeeper, a playwright, a farmer, a chef, a carpenter, or any other non-violent vocation.

I might be for Open PvP, but I'm not a "PvP'er". I just like to play with others and let them be content in the game. Another story line for me to overcome. If its Theifs with their Open Loot, or someone playing a murderer that want to Open PvP. Its why I play a Multiplayer online game.

If you are FORCING someone to play a mode that has Consensual PvP and NOT providing a mode that is Open PvP for them... than yes, its Forcing Consensual. Some people like myself just want to play with others, let them role play a theif or a murderer, attack me and have them be a part of the content in the game. Have them drive a part of the story line.

Any time Open PvP comes up, there is constant push back and calling implying those people are Sociopaths. I mean honestly... its a game; one that is in part online at that. Where other players help drive your personal story. Dont like Open PvP? Then dont play Open PvP. Dont sit here attacking me on contradictory terms that are applicable in this situation. And they definatly shouldnt sit here implying and doing their best to skirt the line of insulting over a feature in a game. Falsly applying a physcological condition at that.

Again, a sociopath can play game, but playing games does not make you a sociopath NOR does it lend itself to such. Or else ANYONE that has EVER killed something in a game is a sociopath. Its just nuts.

So this is a PvP forum. I feel sillying having to remind you that Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, SI, and even 8 and 9 are all single player... which there will be and which are how RG handled single player story driven in those. But by definition, PvP would require an online mode... which UO is. So telling them to play UO is like telling yourself “If you want Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, SI, 8 and 9 so much GO PLAY Ultima 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, SI, 8 and 9.” So you can see the conundrum you have placed yourself in with that statement.

So I hope this clarifies for you why this discussion is happening in the PvP forum.

*edited for content* ~FireLotus

 

A story as deep as U7, world as big as U4 and mutiplayer like UO. That was the way this was desribed. Basically a multiplayer version of the numbered Ultimas

Why wont this be Forced PvP, because the dev team want the game to make money, thats why. I really should have saved Lum's article so it can be posted in every one of these silly threads. Maybe if you read it enough it might start to sink in

 

Let's be honest: interaction between players ins't full without open world and PvP. I think nobody will argue with that.

MMO game is "a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously" according to wiki.
IMHO, this definition isn't accurate since it doesn't say anything about interaction. Thousands of people using a virtual subway - is that a MMO? Doubt that, no interaction between people at all.

Open world and PvP is a must. This fact brings new problem: some players can't or don't wan't to PvP. But it is already solved in several MMO's.

So, making instanced world/forbidding PvP isn't the right way to make the game attractive to casual players. It becomes more attractrive to casual players, but it becomes much WORSE itself as a game.
Making harsh open world attractive to causual players with PROPER SOLUTIONS, some of which we can already see in modern MMO's is the way to go.

 

You and I have spoken at length about this, but, I think the reason we are seeing threads like that on other site is because, in part, it might be possible that protecting one group of player from a word, but not another group of players is sending a message that may be invoking action toward protecting one side and prosecuting the other. Excuse the run on sentence.


There is no think, that is exactly what is happening on other sites.

 

@ CaptainJackSparrow I choose my words with care. I chose to say mutually contradictory, because I was pointing out that they contradict each other in this setting. Mutually exclusive works, but did not support the diction I had selected for my comment. It's editorializing.

But nobody's forcing you, Tim. All they are saying is that they don't want to be forced. Technically, it's a game, thus voluntary, and none of us are being forced, but for the sake of the arguement I'm using the term. But even taking that into account, those who want an OPT OUT are not requiring anyone else to use it. It's a multiplication of options. There is no forcing.

Every time Open PvP comes up, some jerk says "Yeah, I don't get why we can't make the whole game like this, screw people opting out." At which point several people say "Hey, I'm not requiring you to play my way, why should I be forced to play yours? I don't want to be stuck with only one option." Then YOU come in and say that they are opressing you. The devs have already stated that there will be opt out capability for PvP. There WILL BE opt out. So the jerks don't need to complain, they won't be getting FORCED one mode Open PvP. The guys arguing against it don't need to do so, they've already been promised an opt out, and it isn't going to be taken away. I'm not sure WHAT you're trying to accomplish.

As for the claim that game play styles can indicate sociopathic tendencies, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that we aren't talking about people who kill ONE other player in game. Probably more like people who do nothing BUT kill other players in game, seeking out the weak and helpless preferentially, and taking joy primarily in the knowledge that they are ruining other people's enjoyment. You can choose to take offense from that if you want, and if you feel the description applies to you, but I don't believe it does, or I wouldn't be speaking with you. If you do, however, choose to apply this description to yourself, go ahead.

 

Um Guys.. Topic --> The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

May we get back to it please? Thank you! *leaves you both snugs*

 

Sadly, yes, we have answered this all before. There are groups interested in this game who don't agree. Some of them don't want to. In point of fact, if even one person doesn't WANT to agree, then you can't really reach an accord. That leaves us rehashing the battle lines we've already drawn each and every time a new player joins the forum and asks about PvP.

 

I am still kinda new here but it all seems pretty simple. There are game modes which will exclude you from ever being in a PvP situation.

*waves hand like jedi*
There is no problem.

The only thing that will cause issues, is if the PvP mode that the PvP players opt into has been nerfed heavily. That will cause a word of mouth crapstorm about SotA the likes of which haven't been seen yet.

 

On this point I agree. The PvP players deserve a severely brutal opt in. Probably a small range of them, so that they can get as brutal as they like.

 

Seems like some of us are still getting themselves all in a lather about a word that isn't even censored on these forums....

Let me restate that the use of any word, however you dress it up in brackets or cutsey nouns, to slander or sterotype a group of players is against forum rules. I have removed PK, and ******** (see, it's NOT banned), and care<blank> from several posts in this thread to TRY and clean it up on all sides, and it just keeps getting uglier every time I come back to check on things.

I am not your mother. I am not going to keep coming in and cleaning up your mess. If either side continues mud slinging or grandstanding, there are going to be quite a few people who wake up to temporary bans until you can learn to be cordial to differing playstyles.

Consider this a final warning.

 

UO is not the UO it once was.
It got dumbed down.
Why can't UO players get a mode for the old UO style?
And why would we go anywhere else when the team that gave us UO is right here?

 

why cant Numbered Ultima players get the co-op ultima WE were promised?
Once again no one is stopping you playing PvP everywhere you like, its you who want to stop those of us with no interest in PvP from playing co-op only

 

It sounds like you already have your PVE and story to play in.
And I'm sure you will have your online mode to go with it.
All I'm asking for is a mode that feels like UO.
How is that going to hurt anyone?

 

Once again you already have that, if your PvP switch is on then your world will be populated by people with the PvP switched on, if I don't then my world will be populated by people who DON'T have PvP turned on. Why is this so hard to understand? Chris has only said it about a million times

 

This is about as recent as it gets from Star Long
Will there be open world pvp? PVP is still too early in design to answer this.
What kind of collision is planned for the game? No player collision at this time. Trying to solve for the griefing it can cause is crazy big problem

This tells me we don't have any open UO type of PVP yet.

 

Let me help you understand what he and many PvP players are asking for.

We wish to play SotA, we know we will use the slider bar to select a PvP play style. What we do not want is for people who do not PvP, to influence and nerf our selected PvP play style. When we select PvP, we want old school versions of PvP. Full loot.

So, people who will be playing offline or outside of PvP we wish to not try to influence PvP rules or take dumps on us. Plain and simple.

 

And this, speaking as someone who is about as completely non-PvP as it's possible to be, I completely agree with. Thank you, Captain.

 

Full loot is a different issue. You may get it but its going to be a massive trade off for RG. He said at the start he wants to entice people into PvP with things like PvP quests. Well thats fine AS LONG AS the penelties are kept reasonably low. If you set it so that there is open slather and someone can steal everything you own, epecially including items which cost REAL money like the Kickstarter items and you house which I have herd used to happen in UO well then good luck enticing any fence sitters into giving it a go.

So I guess it comes down to what do you prefer? more freedom and less targets or more targets and SOME restrictions?