The net effect of card combat on me and how YOU THE PLAYER can start a REVOLUTION

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Prince Guni, Jul 26, 2014.

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Do you like random cards?

  1. Keep those random cards coming!

    95 vote(s)
    67.9%
  2. I don't like random/chance/clicking but want to focus on my tactics instead! Fixed cards please!

    45 vote(s)
    32.1%
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  1. baronandy

    baronandy Avatar

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    who told that ??? sure not its an alpha and i feel like i am the only who think the next 5 releases should be focused on combat system only ,i gave feedback what i have seen need to be implemented and what i think would be the most fun for me and the people i know who played uo , which was a lot of people maybe 40 we all played together in an internet cofee because internet was expencive and laggy at home almost the whole talkhouse community,i just hope a developer read the forum and it give him maybe inspiration. woudnt post a thingle thread and waste my time if i woudnt loved ultima. and im sure not premature im already 30 and played already computer games on my commodore 64 and played a lot of games and can tell you that the pvp in rune million years ago was better

    played melee combat games mostly from rune to mount and blade chivalery , and mmos like age of conan uo and mortal online , all other mmos i ever tested was like super boring pvp wise or missed player driven economy and housing


    there are a lot of people think like me

    http://techland.time.com/2013/03/11/before-you-drop-money-on-richard-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar/

    just found this article
     
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  2. scorn

    scorn Avatar

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    In the end, it's gonna have both locked and cards, for me this gives me the filling of the spells at will, and the deck systems the fill of lots of combos,
    we voice are op that's good, give are input that's good, but by ripping someones id down because you dislike it... well that's not constructive in any shape way or form.
    i wish everyone the best and hope the dev keep this work up!
     
  3. docdoom77

    docdoom77 Avatar

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    I was open-minded going in. I was concerned about splitting my attention between glyphs and combat, but I liked the idea in general.

    Having tried it, I'm not a fan. I don't hate it. There are things to love. Getting a boatload of skills into 5 slots is pretty cool any way you slice it. And it didn't divert as much focus from the combat as I expected, BUT it still does divert my focus and I have a hard enough time with 3d combat as is.

    If they keep the option for locked toolbar without massive penalties (soon please), I think it's fine. I'll gladly trade combos for the ability to keep my eyes on the action, that seem like a fair trade. I just don't see how they can balance both the locked bar and the deck. The combat balancing relies on slugs and spending skill points on multiple copies of skills, which the locked bar simply won't have. They've got their work cut out for them.

    Frankly, I'm more worried about the amazingly un-fun fizzle mechanic than I am about the deck system.
     
  4. Sarg

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    That's exactly the point the author of the article you posted missed. He says RPGs don't need a "messiah game" - except that MMORPGs absolutely do. They've been garbage ever since WoW came out - investors are only interested in copying the WoW-model. The niche games that have tried to avoid it have largely failed due to people's expectations of polished games, something tiny startup developers can't bring - people always bring up EVE here, but EVE pre-dates WoW. It's actually a perfect illustration. SWG at launch, City of Heroes, EVE - games were diverse and constantly adding new mechanics. The MMORPG genre peaked in 2003/2004. I'm talking about innovation here, not subscriber base.

    This is exactly what RG, Darkstarr and crew can bring - enough fame to attract press attention and crowd-funding. This allows them to do something different than the WoW model and actually have hope for success.
     
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  5. Kaisa

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    Yep I too was someone who thought the system sounded horrible when I first heard about it. Now that I have actually tried it I think it is actually quite good though of course there are still a lot of issues to work out. However I think even at this early stage they have a pretty fun combat system. People should not judge the system before at least trying it. Also I think even after trying it and not liking it people should not just give up. Give feedback and give them a chance to improve things. I mean like I have said there are issues they need to address but we need to give them time to address them.
     
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  6. Jambot

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    You guys do know you are allowed to re-map keys, right ?
     
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  7. Caliya

    Caliya Avatar

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    Why wouldn't you get any useable results? The random card system is not a new idea. It exists in other games. People seem to pretty much either love it or hate it. That won't change by trying it out.
     
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  8. Caliya

    Caliya Avatar

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    The way I see it, based on forum comments, is that people who normally avoid or dislike PvP like the random card system, and hard core PvPers hate it.

    There's probably some sway either direction.
     
  9. Vendetta Beretta

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    This is not true AT ALL. I'm hard core PvP and I love the system. I think this game already has some of the best PvP of most any game I've played so far. All of my old guildmates and other rival PvPers I know, are all hard core PvPers as well, and they all loved R8. I haven't heard much negativity at all. I'm kind of shocked at your post. We see it as a good initial start for SotA, and after seeing how well R8 turned out we expect that SotA will have a great PvP system. We were all quite impressed.
     
  10. High Baron Asguard

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    Nah I hate this stupid card game system AND PVP :)

    Give me back an old school single player U7 game :(
     
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  11. Rodriguez

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    Hard core PvPers use whatever system there is and figure out the best tactics and builds possible and use every chance they get to train and improve.

    People who proclaim they are kickass PvPers but refuse to log in and demand that the system follows their own ideas are just forum warriors.
     
  12. baronandy

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    what games did you play ???

    you found chivalery worse combat system or age of conan ??? or mortal online with hitboxes fps like with 3 different blocking directions (kinda imoressed me for an open world mmo with housing) ???

    you tell you like it soo much what do you like on the current system and why ???
     
  13. rune_74

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    Be careful what you wish for. Combat in U7 really sucked....it was probably one of the worst of the ultima series. But, thankfully the rest of the game was great.
     
  14. High Baron Asguard

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    True, it was horrible but the game itself was AWESOME
     
  15. Logain

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    Prince Guni (and a coule of others), I really, really fail to understand your concern. Has there been a solid, reliable developer feedback about completely discarding the all-locked system yet and I simply missed it? If not, where is the problem? You can use exactly what you want, the static toolbar is right there. People have the choice, granted it is a meaningfull choice, but that's positive and not negative! Choice should (even though it doesn't in most of todays games) matter. If you're simply concerned about balance, then give it time till R 11. After most of the system is up and running, the fine tuning can start. You said it yourself, you gain the advantage of being able to focus less on skills and plan ahead. You have no slugs and you always get the skill you need right there. You trade these benefits in for the disadvantage of additional resource drain.
    You get what you want, others get what they want and while it's not the same, it ends up with nobody having a real advantage over the other. So, how's that bad? If it's simply about marketing, then it can easily be worded in a way to attract people who are shy of "card systems" through calling it an innovative attempt at reworking the static combat for those that want to up the ante and try their skill, while fully granting people the option to use what they know and learned to like as an equally useful fallback.

    There has been only a fraction of what's going to be combat implemented. We do not use reagents, we have only a tiny part of the skills, armour and weapons aren't fully funtional yet (as in stochastical usage) and so on and so forth. The possible options on where to grant slight penelties or a bonus are going to be plentiful. I have faith in Chris when he tracks usage and then alters the scenario accordingly, that's how such things are done.
     
  16. Prince Guni

    Prince Guni Avatar

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    Logain, the problem is this: The random cards, apart of being annoying, create a situation in which players with fast twichy clicking reactions, piano fingers and better equipment (e.g. game mouse with mapable keys etc) fight much better than players who are a little bit slow. That means you have quite a scale of power/effectiveness entirely based on speed/dexterity of the players, even among players who are otherwise equally skilled in tactics and such. With a fixed skill bar, you do not have that same spread because there is far less fast clicking. Now if you allow both options and you want to balance them fairly, you can of course not make the skill bar ON AVERAGE more powerful than the random cards thing. But because the difference in game play effectiveness between a dexterous player with a fast reaction using a skill bar and a clumsy/slow player using a skill bar is much smaller than the difference of those two types of players using a fast changing random card deck, it will always be much harder to achieve above average combat effectiveness with a locked skill bar than with the random card option if those two are balanced against each other in the same game.

    In that scenario (actually, that is how it works now), a slow player could switch to the fixed skill bar and achieve a more average combat effectiveness, basically avoiding a handicap. But somebody who wants to play among the top will still have to use the random card deck. This doesn't seem very appealing to me.
     
  17. Vendetta Beretta

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    Hmm. I didn't see anything twitchy about it. It was really slow and simple. It wasn't stressful at all. Maybe you should invest more in the focus skill tree. My glyphs stayed up a long time, and when I clicked on, another one popped up in its place really fast.

    Also I have a gaming mouse and a gaming keyboard. I didn't have to use them. I just clicked the icons, and I was doing very well in the PvP zones.

    *Twitchy games are like fast action fighting games where you have to tap the buttons at just the right time to create a complex combo. Also to avoid being damaged you have to have fast reactions, and time defesive moves near perfectly.

    R8 Was not complex and stressful.
     
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  18. Rodriguez

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    But isn't this the player skill that, according to many opponents of the random deck system, is completely absent in the random deck system?
     
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  19. Drocis the Devious

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    The cards being random makes me believe that it's harder for people to script or commit to muscle memory ways to defeat their opponents. That's a longer way of saying I think the random cards involves more skill than not having random cards.
     
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  20. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    This...

    What I hear when a PvP proponent advocates fixed skill bars is the need to macro skill combinations to be triggered by a single button click and executed by a piece of software that needs to know where on the screen to click.

    What I believe to be a primary outgrowth of the Deck system, other than thwarting the desire above, is to force the combatant to use Actual skill and Think about the construction of their deck to maximize their strengths and minimize the possibility of not having what they most rely on available. It also forces the combatant to learn to adapt and make best use of what they have available in the moment.

    To me the latter shows far more real skill than the former.
     
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