The 'Pre Trammel' Complaint

Discussion in 'The Kingdoms of Old' started by SennahTNae, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. Annah_Sennah

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    I hear people complain all the time how UO was so much better before Trammel was around, I came after Trammel was created so I don't have the full experience in it. I was early enough (2002) to get an idea of some things good and bad about Trammel.

    One of the best things is not being ganked by sudden group of pkers. In my opinion pking ruins a lot more of the game than anything else because there is no point in it except people abusing the system to give other people grief. Richard Garriott had a beautiful game about trying to be a good virtuous person but pking shows just how horrible people can be. My favorite story that Richard Garriott tells is about the woman being griefed by the thief since the game had a way for him to grief someone he took advantage of it. Sure you can say 'well that's how I have fun' which is a selfish philosophy because maybe you are having fun but the ones that you are rez/killing, griefing, dropping a gate to a dangerous spot...they aren't having fun because they were playing how they like to before you came and ruined it. Pkers generally spend a lot of gold on these 'uber' weapons, some speed hack, then prey on people when they can't truly fight back and take everything. Like those that stealth in fel champ spawns, the people doing the champ spawn go all the way to the end then the pkers come, kill everyone, steal everything they just fought for, and take the final boss down.

    Sure having the Trammel side does cause some problems because in a roleplay stand point you can't actually fight an enemy guild unless they are highlighted which leads you to a bunch of emoting attacks which feels pretty silly when you do it. People who want to pvp just to practice pvp can't unless they are in a guild or in fel. So Trammel has its downside, but it protects people from being bullied by people who think its funny to take advantage of others. It would be one thing if ALL players went by a code of ethics, but they take as much as they can possibly get and do whatever they want with no consideration for other players.

    I don't see pkers complaining about the item insurance in UO, because that makes it harder for them to take everything but it also safeguards their own stuff while they rez/kill the person until they run out of gold to keep it insured. UO has stripped the Ultima from it by people having the thought process that 'well I'm allowed to do it so I'm gonna do anything I want!' This thought process is probably the one that created Trammel, if people played virtuously there would probably only be Felucca because the 'Trammies' wouldn't constantly be worried about being the victim of an unfair attack. If you want to complain about Trammel and you are one of the unvirtuous players then look in the mirror because your actions probably created it. Richard Garriott would probably have made the two separate facets in the beginning if he wanted a world to have constant protection from other players along with one that makes you open to attack. From seeing what he is doing with SoTA he doesn't want to 'hold peoples hands' and make everything mind numbingly easy, but he also doesn't like to see players get victimized and griefed by other players. He wants a hint of danger and adventure for everyone, but he also doesn't want the griefing thief to happen again because he sees that it makes the experience frustrating to those that are new to the game or don't spend all of our time in combat.

    If you want SoTA to not have a Trammel part to it than be a considerate player, but I know already that won't happen because of some of the other threads started by people who obviously want to find a way to take advantage of other players. Act like the Avatar and not the orcish thug that only wants to klomp and get tribuute.
     
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  2. Sir Seir

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    At the same time, with selective multiplayer modes, I can control whether or not I wish to PvP so maybe this becomes a non-issue?
     
  3. Ao Soliwilos

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    This is not entirely true, you can control who and how many you play with. I guess you could say that going singleplayer would leave you without PvP. However, there was no PvP on/off button in the R1 client. I think Richard Garriot wants PvP to be a seamless part of the online experience, but not in total chaos.
     
  4. Sir Seir

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    Well, if I'm playing with friends (FPO) then my friends had better NOT res kill me and loot my corpse. Now, I'm NOT a PvP type more the explorer type BUT I don't really like the idea of adding more and more systems when they really don't solve the problem.
     
  5. Geden

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    So... no res killing you... gotcha... *wink* *wink*
     
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  6. Annah_Sennah

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    It will be less of an issue, but we have not gotten a chance to work with SoTAs multiplayer yet so it is too early to tell what issues might come up with selective multiplayer.
     
  7. Sir Seir

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    Yup! The whole friends of friends thing will be interesting. Curious how the networking will be implemented.

    Trust me when I say that we don't know all the answers and hopefully Richard and Starr will share some of this insight with us during the 6 hour interrogation that we have coming up tomorrow :)
     
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  8. Umbrae

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    Using RE clients is not a good indication of features. There was no combat in RE1, but pretty sure there will be. ;)

    However, I agree there will probably not be a player controlled PVP toggle. This will most likely be related to entering hexes or taking quests where you will know PVP is enabled in that case and be giving the option to avoid (i.e. not accept the quest or avoid the hex and choose a different route). They have said you will be able to avoid PVP, but the exact details are still in the wanting.
     
  9. Malanthius

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    I was never a pker. That said, i am one of those that agree that UO was the best before Tammel. Pking IMO gave the game a sense of immersion that you could not get with AI mobs. I can remember the panic or excitement we would get when we saw red names coming on to the screen. We played an anti pk guild that would meet up and actively hunt pks on our runs. We would show up at the local mining spots to protect the miners while they worked. We would lay hidden using the miners as bait. Oh the battles that we had! But I agree. The game mechanics were abused and there were not enough penalties for becoming a murderer. That allows people to run wild without reservations. These have always been my ideas.

    1) Open world pvp with full drop. Or make the best loot drop in open world pvp areas. You could also increase a players chances for drops if they were open pvp to make the risk worthwhile.
    2) Murderers would have stat loss and also life limits. They could build up their stats over time. But say if they were killed a certain number of times, that character would experience perma death. True penalties for your actions. Like in life!
    3) Mercy button for murderers. They can beg for mercy with a push of a button. This would instantly teleport them to a public jail for the humiliation to ensue! Let them sit in jail for awhile to reflect on their actions. Say one hour real time for every murder count! Perhaps allow people to throw fruits and vegetables at them!
    4) If you were murdered by someone you would be immune to attacks from that person for a set period of time. Or perhaps their attacks would cause significant less damage for each round of kills during a time period making it more risky to continue to kill someone over and over.

    Just a few ideas I've had over the years. I understand your feelings against pks. I really do. But I think there is a place for them that adds a level of excitement you cannot get otherwise. Unfortunately too many abused the system that was in place leaving a bad reputation for them. Wouldn't it have been different if someone role-played a murderer and wasn't an arse about it? I've actually run across those. They would murder me. Then rez me and offer a gate to town. Or just a gate. That makes a huge difference. Unfortunatly a lot of RPKS have no class and haven't a clue what games like this are suppose to be about.
     
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  10. Danirus

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    Perma-death is never a good option imo. It takes so long to make a character worthy of becoming a murderer that perma-death it far too harsh to implement.

    However perma stat loss and skill loss on the other hand is more viable.
    The more times a murderer is killed the more stats (base attributes) and skill points they lose until they become so weak they have no option but to mend their ways.
    This would also deter alot of players from randomly PKing in the first place.
     
  11. Malanthius

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    Just an idea. I'll tell you one thing. When they reach that death cap limit they will be less likely to go out ganking innocents. Might be a good time for them to consider thier sins and work off some of those murder counts. Or hit that mercy button and take the public humiliation. Mortality and shame work well sometimes in real life. I can see it working here.
     
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