The way the deck system should work

Instead of just having it randomly cycle into random slots i think randomization of the hotbar whould be a function of crowd control like a rogue stun or confuse spell would make more sense for it to randomize your keys it seems logical that if u were confused your abilities would randomize. The way it is now i flat out wont play it as i hardly feel like a combat master if i hardly get to watch anything other than the hotbar because my guy is supposedly flustered by combat with a chicken.


Training should completely overcome the random dropping in of abilities to your bar. Good warriors dont get flustered under presure and to have it simply 24/7 functioning as though youve never swung a sword will be a major distraction and annoyance in combat and imo wil lead more people away.

There are other ways to make combat realistic or enthralling instead of just flat out being a pain in the neck. I know im not the only one that wont participate in the system as is

 

There are skills you can gain to give you more control over the speed at which skills drop in/out, and how many you can "lock" in, so in a very strong sense, yes, a trained warrior in this game will have more control over the abilities dropping in and out.

I don't know how you can claim you won't be watching anything other than the hotbar, since we haven't had a chance to play the system.

 

Because if you arent watching it you will llikely choose the wrong ability and fail. I want to watch the action not stare at a hotbar currently somegames that dont have the system still encounter too much hitbar watching just to time cooldowns. A trained warrior would not be so flustered that he wouldnt know what abilities are where abd besides they can keep the shstem just modify it so its not constant and only situational for cc. It makes more sense

I for one as well as many others will not donate or subscribe if its kept in its current form. There are other and more sensible ways to re invent combat
Can you imagine how this will destroy any form of grouping or raiding that may be implimented. Sorry i wiped the whole raid i cant dodge circle on the ground and watch my hotbar at the same time. What a nightmare. I dont need to play it to realize that any form of randomizing the hotbar is detrimental to strategy.

Im all for randomness in combat but random crits, damage and spell effects are enough for me. It likely wont be this intuitive system that adds chaos to the game. I know they are trying t avoid cookie cutter min maxing but if all the skills are balanced it wont exist

Currently with the randomization you will have to get lucky over actually learning to play. Some think it will add strategy to combat but as it seems now it still wont avoid cookie cuttering as there will be optimal loadouts for every specific combat function/role and will just be frustrating changing soecs every time i want to do something different not to mention will create optimAl spec loadouts that will be cookie cutter

Imo this is the wrong way to go about trying to avoid min maxing wheras balancing all abilities to be useful will avoid cookie cutter min maxing

 

I look forward the deck building and the strategies behind it. Last thing I want from this game is to have it be the same game that I've played for the last 10 years.

 

Like i said they can avoid this system and still not make it like every other mmo. Look at wildstar. Hate to say it while the IP is weak it will prbably draw way more players if this sustem is kept it will just have ppl siphoned away unless they are just diehard RG fans. Casuals will likely view this sustem with disdain. You are supposed to be some gnarly avatar not some guy who is more likely to die from stabbing himself with his sword just trying to unsheathe it. Some peope will be blind to the reality due to their devotion to the brand.

Some ppl tend to see it as either all this way or all old hat style boring combat. It would be more logical to take baby steps with gradual implimentation to see how it fares than say this is the way it will be with an iron fist. Why not try it out with subtle rollout like for a cc mechanism.

I personally think it would fit and be a great alternative to just losing control via crowd control. It seems supports are more just wishig and hoping its great instead of seeing it objectively because anyone who does realizes that it will completely ruin any kind of raiding or group play. U think its hectic playing it solo try it with a while group or more of people focusing and praying their hotbar lays out correctly instead of watching hp meters and circles of death or looking at health bars. Theres already enough going on onscreen without this lame duck

 

I have to agree with Seir.
Being an avid Magic: The Gathering/Netrunner player, I'm looking forward to this new system. Sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

 

It sounds like you're just making a bunch of assumptions. If implemented improperly, yes, a system like this could conceivably require too much focus on the hotbar and bring in too big an element of luck. But there are lots of dials that can be played with to prevent these issues - how quickly things come up or fade, how big or small a deck you can have, how many copies of each ability, etc.

A small deck with lots of copies of an ability (or similar abilities) means less luck - big deck with fewer copies means more. This is a dial that can be tweaked. Very quick dropping out/drawing from the deck leads to too much focus needed. Slow means a lot less. At one extreme, you get your worry - everything is luck and you need to be looking at nothing but the bar to make it work. At the other extreme, the abilities that come up are pretty predictable, and happen slowly so you rarely look at your hotbar. I have no doubt that the extremes would both make for a bad game. I don't have your confidence that there is no level at which there's a good balance.

 

They haven't been saying "this is how it will be with an iron fist". They've said "This is what we've come up with", and made it very clear that, if after testing it doesn't seem to be working, they'll try something else.

 

Back to the pudding again. We really have to get our hands on this before we know how it's going to play or feel.

 

Im not making assumptions im basing it off of RG himself saying in a video on this site that he thinks people will spend too much time watching their hotbars. Combat already had enough variables thats the math behind every calculation.

You seem to have no more evidence than i yet somehow just rely on hope for it to be the way you want instead of looking how it actually is. Im basing it on the combat as it is now and how the goals they stated they want it to be. If theres one thing i want to RELY on its knowing where my abilities are
No two combat scenarios are the same thats eniugh randomness for me last thing i want is to not even know what abilities i am getting or where they will be

If they keep it i at least hope they make the slots not change and should be able to know what kind of ability will be in each slot. If you can lock down 75% it would still be painful that means u are giving up improving other areas of combat just to have a chance you get the right ability in the right slot st the right time

Some of us just want an updated version of uo. Right now it seems they are just messing with perfection and in no way will this change be any kind of successor to UO. If it were it would keep the familiarities of the past instead of gambling on a system

Id rather know what im getting than just hope it isnt horrible. Seeing how the ppl that donate the most seem to support it there is little hope that they will listen to everyone else and change it. For some reason they seem hellbent on making it work despite nobody being able to explain how this will not completely ruin raiding. Having unscripted abilities for scripted encounters is a recipe for disaster

If RG himself is concerned that there will be too much time spent watching hotbars instead of actually playing and then is too stubborn to change it then lots of ppl such as myself will not want to participate in an avoidable train wreck. Last poll i saw more people wanted a different system than ones that wanted to keep this one

Like i said they dont have to pick such a drastic measure for such a critical element of the game. They should change it in moderation instead of forcig something because they want to make it work

There are plenty of other less drastic ways to acheive their goals

 

I already have a deck, It's above the entrance to my knights keep. Ok, also the roof is a deck so I have 2. I don't really want them to change randomly....

 

hehe...personally I don't think UO is anywhere close to perfection BUT that's opinion and we can all have our own.

I don't think the plan is to try and make UO2. The designers and the devs are not idiots and they will certainly NOT go with the interface we saw in the 6 month video. I have faith that there is enough sense in the folks in Austin to come up with a slick, new and still fun-to-play design.

I agree with Maka; let's see what they come up with for R4 and then go from there.

 

You are assuming a lot here, let's see it and test it before we critize it. To me personally it sounds like an interesting idea. Back in the days of D&D our DM introduced critical hits and failure into our game, everyone groaned and complained about it, until we actually tried it... was the best thing ever. The chaos a critical failure caused actually made the game harder but also increased the fun tenfold. So until we get to test this bad boy, let's not freak out. I get you are concerned with it and all that is implyed, but remember if it is no good they have a more traditional back up system too. I like the fact that they are trying something different then I am comfortable with, whether it will be any good or not, time will tell.

 

They haven't had an iron fist and have stated they have a backup plan if its not fun; however, the do appear strongly invested in the system and will be more likely to tweak it than drop it.

I think people are just freaking out about loosing control, but in RPG system you were never fully in control as there was always random actions (i.e. dice rolls). I can understand the concerns of fighting the UI, but I don't see this any different than traditional hotbars. The randomness can be negated by training the ability to lock skills, but otherwise I see this as just a representation of the chaos of battle. The more trained your character is, or the more you prepare (i.e. stack your deck), the more control you will have. That seems very realistic to me, but I am a supporter of removing player skill or twitch mechanics and instead focusing on the abilities of your character. That's kind of the essence of an RPG to me, and I much prefer an RPG to an action game.

I am also a MTG player, so I really see a lot of potential in the combat system the Dev's propose. I can understand concerns, but until it is tested and refined there is not much to discuss. However, I would prefer a combat system that represents the skills of our characters and not the player proficiency with the mouse and keyboard. Of course, I would take turn-based combat too: sorta of Civilization style.

 

Umm, no. Reread my post maybe. What I'm stating are known "dials" that can be used to adjust the combat system. I'm not saying "it will be this way or that way", but just that there will be a fair amount of flexibility within the general system they're proposing, such that it's plausible they can find a balance.

Where is this video that you state RG definitively says that their system will inevitably lead to too much looking at the hotbar? Are you sure he didn't say something like "We are going to need to try to avoid making it so you need to focus on the hotbar"? I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a possibility and something to be kept in mind. Your assumption that it must be the case is what I'm disputing.

 

Its in one of the videos i dont know which one they are log and plentiful he said somethig to the effect of they dont want players to spend too much time looking at the hotbar and that its too confusing and mentioned color coding outlines of your abilities. All im saying is we all have the same info and im going off what is there and what their stated intentions are instead of speculating how it will be. Neither the way it is or the intended design are appealing to me. I love everythig else about it and its dissapointing that the combat will be the only thing keeping me from donating or subscribing. They said to let them know what needs to change before you donate and i am doing so.

I dont see how with constatly moving abilities you could avoid focusing constantly on it. Thats why i think its a bad design. No matter what options the player can change they cant change enough to make the system function anyway other than it is designed or intended to function

I think if more dont support than dont they should change it as was stated its a game for us. The community at large not just ppl that donate

 

It was one of the early videos after Chris had talked about it on camera. Kind of hard to find those needles in that haystack at this point. In a nutshell, RG had major concerns on the system, but he said Chris made a good pitch and thought the system will work. That is why I am dismissing any concerns about the combat system until we see it. I trust these guys understand the problems and risks related to this system, and will make it work. And its not like they won't get any feedback on it.

 

I also just want to see it at this point. Everything I've heard or seen is the opposite of what I would have done, basically doubling down on the stupid gimmicks of existing systems. But if they think they can get East by sailing West, they've earned enough rope to prove it.

I want a system where I look at my opponent, feel my controller. So far I've seen a system where I have to look at weird parts of the UI to hit weird buttons on my keyboard.

 

Exactly they keep saying they are open to changes but its as if they are hellbent on making it work despite obvious problems from the start. If its barely implimented and already has problems it should be an indicator your are trying to put a square peg in a round hole

Everyone here is on the same page that we want a good unique comat system where the divide is in some of us thinking that the current path is not it and at least try other options and others are steadfast in wanting to for e the current system to work

 

I don't see any indication that there are already major problems. Are there things that need to be looked out for? Yes, just like any system (not just combat) in any game, you need to be aware of what would make the system not work well. The devs have shown every indication of being aware of these potential pitfalls - this is a good thing, not a bad.

I appreciate the sentiment of "I want to make my voice heard", I really do - I've made much the same point in other places where I've been unhappy with design choices. But when you're one among tens of thousands, you can't just assume everyone agrees with you. So far, the combat system has supporters and detractors. You're one of the detractors. Great. I just don't think you should claim that the devs are being unreasonable if they want to try a system (which sounds interesting to at least a large portion of the community) and not just junk it because you don't like it. The issues you are worried about are issues the devs know about and are going to be careful to avoid. Other than that assurance, I'm not sure what you expect.