This will break the game. And no, I'm not trolling.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bubonic, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. Sir Seir

    Sir Seir Avatar

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    What if the cost of the gold was dependent (tied into) the game's economy? So, if normally a hex was instantiated 1000 times a day and generated x amount of gold (gold + items on MOBs) for player; this was used as a baseline. Now, if that hex is over-farmed then the "cost" of the gold goes up if it's not then the "cost" of the gold goes down. This way, the external real world remains tied to the game world.
     
  2. vjek

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    If Portalariums definition of pay2win includes them selling in-game gold directly to players for real-life cash, then the issue will be rationalized until implemented, no matter how much impact it will have on a segment of their target demographic.

    From my perspective, that Starr was unwilling to deny this is their current intent is not a good sign. That ominous feeling is back again.
    All we need to hear is "No, it is not a current design goal that Portalarium will sell in-game currency for real-life cash". That's it. From there, we can help with solutions.

    However,
    If it is a current design goal that Portalarium will sell in-game currency for real-life cash, I don't personally see the value in trying to offer solutions.

    What would be the point? The economy would be broken, as has been historically demonstrated with every game that has tried such a thing. Anyone with sufficient real-life money automatically would have the best gear gold can buy, the largest house, and the most desirable plot location. Given what's demonstrated, designed, and outlined so far for EP1 launch, how is such a system not directly contributing towards "winning"? Open wallet. Win Game.
     
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  3. Squire

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    Yeah...what he said. Unfortunately - and I don't like it either - I think it'll happen either way, because it always does.

    And it sucks because of the very problems you pointed out: it brings more money into the economy than is supposed to be in circulation, and it allows the possession of high-power kit without the risk taken to acquire it.

    The only other option is to outlaw trading items for real money, and ban any players caught doing such trading, though that will require a lot of server policing...and to be honest, I don't think it will be possible to stop it completely because people will always find a way.
     
  4. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Dev Emeritus

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    Greetings!

    Much like combat mechanics, an in-game economy is a slippery thing to balance and is something we are currently fine-tuning design wise. Therefore, it's not something we feel comfortable discussing in great detail at this stage. We will be having those conversations with you guys eventually, but for now, all we can do is ask you to be patient and know that we are listening to all of your feedback.
     
  5. Innessa Lelania

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    You can't "win" this game, so this notion of play to win doesn't make sense. Maybe you mean play to get ahead of other people, that would be more appropriate.

    As I said before though, it doesn't matter. If protalarium doesn't sell the gold, other people/websites will, mostly from duping and farming. Its the nature of the black market, so arguing about it makes no sense.


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  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Too many ifs..not enough information. We don't know enough about how everything is going to work to speculate to such a degree.
     
  7. Geden

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    My $0.02 worth (and it's taken way more than that for me to post this)

    The only thought I have on a semi acceptable method of Portalarium selling gold is if they acted as the go between and took a % of the sale. Then at least the market is semi-self contained and someone is putting effort into the game. Although Blizzard attempted that with their Diablo III auction house, and it didn't seem to go all that great, and various other games seem to have mediocre success with similar activities.

    I know for a company to stay in business they have to have income from somewhere, and I have a lot lesser issue with aesthetic items being sold that don't impact things in-game aside from looks.

    I know that whenever there is a market for something and not an authorized method of completing a transaction, inevitably there arises a black market, most of the time, in the MMO/whatever SotA will be, world this equates to an underworld RMT market.

    And yes if you're not selling in-game currency, but something else, then the something else becomes the defacto currency between in-game currency and cold hard cash, unless whatever is purchased via the store is non transferable (which still can/could be circumvented) just not quite so direct.

    (I know I seem to be going in circles)

    That being said I understand that whatever method will be used will be manipulated one shape or another if in-game currency isn't directly sold, but it'd probably help satisfy some concerns if there were a level or two prior to direct translation.

    All that drivel but to sum it up... I sincerely hope that Portalarium doesn't sell in-game currency directly.
     
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  8. vjek

    vjek Avatar

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    So facilitating, in your own words, "the black market" is something Portalarium should participate in? Or not?

    There is a large chasm of moral abyss between being a facilitator of a questionable act and doing everything in your power to prevent it. I know which I would choose.
     
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  9. Sir Seir

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    Oh, I agree; we need to know a whole lot more about things. Your post just spawned the thought.
     
  10. Alayth

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    This is exactly the sort of thinking that I was saying was unproductive in my earlier post. What you have said is the starting point of this discussion, not the end.

    I don't like the idea that buying gold will be the norm (and I think this is a sentiment shared by many, looking at the posts here). I think much more people will be willing to buy from the official game makers (especially when it's explicitly advertised) than from sketchy black markets. Therefore, there is a big difference between there being a black market, and Portalarium actively selling gold. I might be wrong about this - my only reasoning is that if it isn't in the game in some official way cash4gold will be less advertised, fewer people will come across it, fewer people will like the idea of buying from some schmo as opposed to giving money to the company, it will be less convenient to buy through a black-market, and fewer people will be willing to trust some third party to deliver something in game, etc. All of these factors, I think, will lead to significantly lower levels of people paying cash for gold.

    These are my reasons for preferring no official gold buying. Saying gold buying will exist regardless (something everyone knows and has been acknowledged by people on both sides of the debate) adds nothing to the conversation.
     
  11. Innessa Lelania

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    That is incorrect. You are merely burying your head in the sand.

    If you want to minimize gold buying from duping/farming, you should not be against portalarium selling it. In fact you should be cheering them on. Because as I said, if they don't do it, others will.

    The formula is simple :
    1) gold farming/duping will occur. No argument on this point
    2) websites and people will pop up to sell this for RL cash.
    3) the only way to even attempt to minimize this behavior is to have a legal method of getting it (portalarium).

    You need to realize the reality, and then you can talk about minimizing the damage.

    End of story.

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  12. Innessa Lelania

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    My post is not regarding morals. Morals don't matter here. All that matters is reality and how to combat it.

    I do not think portalarium should participate in the black market, I never said that. What I said was that they should legally sell gold to minimize the black market. You can stop it so you can only try to minimize it.
    Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
     
  13. Wagram

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    We already have better tools so what happens at Level 20 mining those will be great for iron but then they will introduce a Copper pick of Prosperity that can extract higher level ore faster & better quality.
    The RLM gold from a shop will be mainly be used to buy up Land Plots that are for sale for in game gold. Then put up on E-Bay with the rest that they have already sold.
    It seems they only want landowners that are prepared to be avid RLM shoppers,
    before Episode 2 this will become a Barbie DollHouse Gold sink, with Blue cows appearing on the Horizon.
     
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  14. 3devious

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    This conversation makes me want to buy some gold. Hey Portalarium, can you hold off on this R2 nonsense and get that in the add on store now?
    Now that, my friends, is trolling.

    sent from the future using my Coleco Adam
     
  15. E n v y

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    Just think if all those houses I can buy with that bought gold.


    ......yup I'm trolling too :D
     
  16. Alayth

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    I don't understand your post. How am I burying my head in the sand?

    I agree with 1 and 2, as I said, everyone has basically agreed there will probably be some sort of black market regardless. What is your evidence for 3? I gave my reasons for thinking the opposite, you've just asserted the opposite without evidence.
     
  17. Caliya

    Caliya Avatar

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    I asked a question, in the similar vein, for the Dev Q&A Suggestions for the Week poll, and made the top 10. My question was combined with another person's that asked about the same topic as you are asking now, which did not make the top 5 in the voting poll. I was not clear on my question, as I felt it needed some background. And now the poll is closed for this week.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-week-of-january-17th.6030/page-3#post-108878

    Apparently you have to enter these "democratic" "contests" to get your "burning" questions answered. If no response is forthcoming in this thread, I suggest you take it up there at that thread, and those who want an answer will follow. I'm not sure if anyone will get straight answers, as they don't want it to be a deal breaker for anyone.


    Considering that I've seen in the open forums that some plan to invest in and sell land, and cause a shortage for others because they can own multiple plots per account, they plan to sell these outside the game. An investment to be paid back rather than backing the game genuinely. Many of these people do not want a closed economy, they want an open economy for these very reasons.

    Now consider this thread will probably be closely monitored and perhaps closed, because bad press won't help the game. We want constructive answers to legitimate concerns and questions.
     
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  18. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Can somebody show me where Darkstarr says they'll be selling gold? I can't find it in there anywhere.
     
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  19. Margard

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    As many have pointed out already ... creating gold out of no where creates INFLATION ... that will affect the economy and ruin it for any new player entering the world past year one and will cause a high price of entry possibly causing lower numbers of player wanting to play the game (it's just not fun when everyone is so far ahead)

    - I'm in support of following a LOL, DOTA model as brought up by many in this forum already

    - Primerib has made an excellent point concerning grinding ... and many others as well concerning the type of gear that will be utilized in this game.

    If we don't have a "love of gear" as has been stated many times by Owain nor have a grind centered game the economy should be ok ...

    BUT introducing gold out of no where is a recipe for disaster ... if you want a real life example look at the Mexican economy during the 80's ...
     
  20. E n v y

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    Its the interpretation of "even if we allow gold purchase".

    Storm in a tea-cup
     
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