Thoughts about Stretch Goals

I myself don't like the strech goals. If we look at "regular" strech goals during most Kickstarter campaigns we have one certain amount we need to fund the game itself once we reach that goal we work through a pre-set list. But, all money goes into one pot.

Here with SotA, after we finished the Kickstarter phase, the pot was split... 1) Pledges 2) Add-on store 3) Strech goals... but hold on... we don't have one strech goal, nope we got 4 (so far).

The Add-on store was the first thing that left a bitter taste, the strech goals only hightened that feeling. The money needed for all strech goals is more and a fifth of the total amount already raised. For me it feels like they are trying to get even the last penny from their community.

 

Kraxtor welcome I know what you mean. this is my first Kickstarter so I understand that what they're working on now is core stuff and that comes from pledge money that needs to be for that. That would be the environmentcharacter generation combat all the basics that make the game run so pet systems & extras would be after they can make the characters and game work first so we can't take away from that or we would have no game to put them in. I hope that helps. I'm just on a break at lunch on my phone. ***cheers***

 

That isn't the problem that is trying to be solved, however. The issue is that there is not enough funds to pay another developer to create those assets, program those systems, and test what constitutes that stretch goal, while maintaining their current release schedule. The amounts are to show what that will cost (likely with some padding). Allowing someone to allocate amounts they have already paid for their pledge does nothing to help earn the funds necessary to hire someone.

Now, I can understand wanting money you apply to the Stretch Goals to also help increase your pledge, but that is still new money coming in.

 

My personal take on the this whole feature stretch goal thing is that it feels sort of like a threat: Basically if we dont continue to add to the coffers, this or that wont happen and it will somehow be our fault that the game falls short of the vision.

Bottom line is that if they need more money, they should concentrate on attracting more pre-buyers, not continue to bleed and pressure the ones who have already bought in. I've paid what I've paid, end of story. If they dont have enough money to make a good game, well, that's sad but its not my responsibility to bail them out by paying an ever increasing price for the product.

 

This is what I used to think, but I'm not sure that is really the case! This thread, for example, debated the possibility of mounts being included anyway at some later point, but the discussions seem to indicate that that was not the devs intent. My post in response to Caliya's shows where I got the idea from - in everything I'd seen, there was an implication (in my mind at least) that 'not for episode 1' meant 'when we have more time', but Caliya pointed out a comment from Chris that says mounts were 'never' planned.

So, based on this newer information, I would have to question whether or not any of these things will ever be put into the game if the associated stretch goal is not met. I don't recall seeing an official answer to that - but then again, if they said "we'll put mounts into Episode 3 regardless" then what point would there be in anyone paying into the goal, except to get a unique colour of horse...

 

One reason would be as a means of receiving it sooner, rather than waiting another three years for them to put it into "Episode 3".

Chris may have mentioned that mounts were never originally intended, correct. However now that they have broached the possibility themselves (with the introduction of the stretch goal itself), I would surmise they are amiable to including them eventually, provided there is sufficient interest in them regardless of whether the goal is met or not.

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Now mind you : What the definition of "sufficient interest" is entirely debatable.

If the intention of the stretch goal is to gauge interest, perhaps "sufficient interest" would indeed require that at least 2500 $100 donations be achieved.

Personally I'm hoping fewer than the actual goal will be considered "sufficient", but who knows. We shall see in the future.

 

They give you a choice. That is all.
Nothing wrong about it.

And no matter if you pay ad on store or pledge or stretch goal.

It always benefits to the game.

 

That is true...

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens!

 

I can't agree with this at all. You're not losing anything if they don't get met. These aren't things that were originally planned. They're just added goodies which you can take or leave. It is in no way a threat.

 

actually your wrong about this, boats was something that was pushed for during kickstarter, so was horses and llamas. From memory they stated that they couldn't be included in the first episode but would be looking to include them in later episodes so depending on what this means yes these are features which were asked for and were planned

 

Since they weren't planned for Episode 1. And we are currently developing Ep1, I have to kindly disagree.

 

Some people have pledged at levels that include all the episodes. So they pledged for what was implied for the series/concept as a whole. It wasn't a problem if they didn't make episode 1. It's a problem that they were implied for later episodes and are now being sold separately at exclusive prices and availability.

Here is something I want to share from the virtual store of another campaign which is perhaps one of the most successful crowdfunding campaigns of the modern era:

 

And until we reach EP5 without said items, there is no room for complaint.

As for the Star Citizen quote, I fail to see the relevance to the current conversation.

 

So your solution is to wait until the very end and see if they squeeze the items in at the last minute? How is that sensible? You don't pay for something and then hope it arrives. That's terrible business for the buyer and the seller.

I thought it was clear? SCs items don't come with exclusivity or limited accessibility. They are also appropriately priced. The current stretch goals for SOTA are barely moving several thousand over weeks at a time. At some points in its campaign, SC was making millions in months. They've done so without any need to tap into buyer impulse. The goals also apply to everyone and are not exclusive, ambiguous or otherwise implied.

 

I shouldn't have said anything. I apologize for butting in. I don't really care enough to be part of this debate and it was giving in to a silly impulse that put me in this thread to begin with. I've wasted your time and mine. So, again, sorry.

 

You don't have to apologise. This is the whole point of the discussion; sharing similar or differing opinions and supporting them. You haven't wasted anyone's time.

 

As for allocating a certain amount from pledges to strech goals, some said it's not possible because it would divert funds from the core mechanics.

1) When Kickstarter was finished we were some where between 2,2 and 2,9 million, now we are at 4,4, the basic goal on the other hand was roughly 1 million. For me that means current funds should suffice (otherwise we're screwed anyways).
2) What about new pledges and upgrades? You wanna tell me they are calculating their expenses based on what they think they will get via new pledges? In my eyes new pledges throw new money in the pot which could be freely distributed.

 

Morgnes, I understand your thoughts but it is not the way it works. Kick starter is exactly that to get the game begun but in no way does it encompass the amount a game cost to make which is somewhere in the ball park of 28-30 mil. Remember we have 5 game releases also. So the funding has to continue to get this game made the way we want. For any who can't afford and don't want to put more in that is perfectly fine and understandable. Just help with feedback and testing the game. So you are in in the middle of a fundraiser , just so you know and can adapt if you would like to. I didn't understand at first, but now I am so interested in this game and I understand more. ****cheers to you****

 

Ok lets say I have 100$, and I like the elven strech goal, but I don't like anything (armor, bow, house) I can buy to further the fund raising for that strech goal.

I could buy a lot of stuff I don't like and want. Or I could upgrade my pledge (preferably to an all digital pledge) and say please allocate those funde toward the elven strech goal. The result is exactly the same (100$ for the elven strech goal), but I get stuff I actually want and if the pledge is all digital there a no costs for the developers. Now explain to me why that shouldn't work.

As for the kickstarter money: What about, lets say, Wasteland 2? They postponed the release because they still had money to further the development, prolong the beta phase etc... and yes that's kickstarter money. Ok the engine is simpler but it's doable. As for Episode 2-5, you really think there won't be extra fundraising?

I'm not against more money for the game, but I want it done the right way, and I'm sorry the way it works now doesn't feel right in any way.

 

Pretty much this!

This is the reason why I pledged what I did. I figured $60 USD will get the game. But I wanted more. I wanted all the cool features they were implying, so I pledged several times that amount to make sure they far exceeded their goals so that stretch goals could be added. Not expecting anything more than anyone else who pledged.