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Time to talk about economy!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Feb 20, 2015.

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  1. Fikule

    Fikule Avatar

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    My current assumption is that players won't be able to be everything.
    So you won't be able to craft everything in game and would end up having to outsource the jobs to other people. This is the only way I can see the self-circle not occurring.

    As to how a crafter starts out, I have no idea. But having the combat ability to beat up a few wolves for resources is something you can do without ever even levelling up. So I suppose early gathering is a piece of cake and will let you slowly get the resources together to start requesting higher quality materials. Again, the best way to make sure the gatherers will part with their materials is by making sure they can't perform all crafts themselves.

    On a similar note, do you even have to fight at all right now? When I want to gather resources I just ignore all the monsters completely. I mean, they don't interrupt gathering.
     
  2. Fikule

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    I would be much happier knowing that skill points will have a cap.

    Though I would assume even then crafting skills would use a separate cap.
     
  3. Anendrue

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    I just do not get it. This all seems very elaborate just to support PvP. Why can't they grind like the rest of us to support they play style?

    Someone please explain that and maybe I'll get on board.
     
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  4. Tahru

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    To quote my signature
    You first have to be willing to accept that other people want to do things you don't want to do and benefit from doing it because it is what they like to do. Then it won't really matter because it is just a balancing act.
     
  5. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Problem with the current system and a skill cap.. is that the need for players to be able to explore all skills with one character demands a respec ability.. and respec walks all over a skill cap like there's no tomorrow. Anyone with enough gold can just respec their skills as their need dictates. So what was the point of a skill cap again? A round about way to have another gold sink?

    Alas that is all tredding on old ground.
     
  6. docdoom77

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    Hear! Hear!

    This is something that's been brought up several times since we started, but I've never heard a response about.

    I really dislike the "gold economy."
     
  7. Bowen Bloodgood

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    It's seen a little more attention in Dev+ and I know I've been on about this and a couple other things from the moment they've been brought up *cough* item breakage *cough* repair costs *clears throat*.

    These systems in particular don't feel well thought out or natural. And so far the pre-alpha doesn't show any strong indicators of any change in direction.

    I think they should just rename "gold" to "bronze" or "crowns" for now. Even if they add higher denominations for EP1.. it won't feel like gold is just a common metal. They can always expand currency later. it would be easier than going in the reverse and adding lower denominations.

    I would also point out that bronze coin exist in BotA.. there is stong precident in lore for bronze and silver coin.
     
  8. docdoom77

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    Agreed. Renaming the current coin denomination to something more abstract would help a great deal in the short term, while opening up more possibilities in the long term. Good show!
     
  9. Vasflam2

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    Don’t you worry, if word gets out that a resource/player rich guild is in an area, the opportunists will come out in force. Small bands of players with nothing to lose and everything to gain will relentlessly make a large guilds endeavor unprofitable. As word spreads, vultures will also sweep in and help bleed the larger guild.

    As long as player looting isn't trivial, smaller bands of players will always have the advantage over larger guilds. Hit and run tactics by many small unconnected bands of players are very effective at marginalizing a larger guilds power.

    IMHO, the very nature of true PvP guilds prevents them from growing too large. We will probably see large PvE guilds decide to put on their PvP hats and make a stab at controlling a zone. The real PvP players will use every underhanded tactic they know to make them pay for their attempt.
     
  10. Bowen Bloodgood

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    And there would be no good reason not to do it really since it would have no effect on the economy either way. So why not open up possible future options?
     
  11. Fikule

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    The point of a cap would be a limiter on how much you could "be" at any one time. I assume if you had a cap your deck might become more specialised for one. You couldn't be a Sun Moon Death Rogue Archer Warrior all at once.
    This is one of the things I equally disliked about some freeshards. They let players be everything, which is horrible when you want to be something. I think the deck system lessens this, but the lack of a cap will mean you could fit every flavour of the month ability in there without issue, and anyone who didn't would be under-tuning themselves.

    Like, imagine a guy, who, for instance, went for Heavy Armour, Tactics and Swordsmanship. If his points only allow him to max these three trees, he is comfortably specialised. He could have gone a number of different routes, but he wanted to be purely a warrior, and exceptional at it.
    Now imagine he has no cap. His role was to play a warrior, it's what he wanted. But now that he has access to everything... he sort of has to be everything. Include those heals man, you need them. Use the death spells, very OP atm. Do you use a bow to initiate? Well, do that, it's good atm. He probably doesn't feel much like a warrior any more.

    I mean, if we want people to explore all trees, I can see a lot of ways to do that while keeping a cap other than as a gold sink. For a start, if there was a cap, you could start using extra points to "re-spec" rather than simply add extra skills. Or you could unlock a new tree to spec out once one is maxed out and swap between those. I imagine you could just do that for as long as you can gain points. But a guy with 10 trees specced out would only ever have as many options at one time as a guy with 1 tree maxed. A progression of options rather than one of power through single-spec-variety.

    To be fair though, I can't claim a great knowledge of the tree progression at this stage. But I am assuming I am generally on track. :confused:


    I think the short reply would have been that it's more a question of playing a role in the world instead of simple being a master of everything at once. But I'm pretty terrible at succinct replies apparently.
     
  12. Anendrue

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    Since I am a casual PvPr I still do not get it. That's just telling me to take a hand out.
    The world is designed to generate gold from the PvM environment. Everyone must do that to gain levels and skill points so there is already a mechanism to get gold etc....

    I guess I do not feel everyone should get the same amount of gold for spending x time in the game. Extra gold past the mandatory PvM that must be done, should be an individual choice and let the market determine what is valuable.
     
  13. Anendrue

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    This is only true in an open world concept. In instances you could flood the zone and force the game into instancing other areas by maximizing the instance population cap. then the area only becomes a farm no different than PvE.
     
  14. Bowen Bloodgood

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    It's a decent point but limits in the deck system pretty much take care of that already. Besides, the beef here isn't the cap itself, be it the current soft cap or a hard cap. It's the ability to respec! All we know right now is.. all you need is money. Warrior today, mage tomorrow, warrior again the day after day. Or all 3 in one day why not?

    And another issue that the current skill design demands respec be possible.

    One of the major points of having a cap in the first place is promoting player inter-dependence.. and yet this skill design eliminates that dependence with a bit of gold. Master miner today.. master blacksmith tomorrow.. oh wait I need some new chests.. a quick respec and now I'm a master carpenter. Respec again and it's back to smith.

    It's not just combat that is effected by this design.

    Now I'm not one to complain and not offer solutions. A few weeks back I suggested a sort of skill use / skill point hybrid idea I'm trying to locate to link to.
     
  15. Dorham Isycle

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    If I 'ignore' everyone that I meet, will I get my own instance in Online so I can go to PvP zone by myself?
     
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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  17. Anendrue

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    This is a joke I hope. If not what an expoit. SPO in the MMO mode.


    Are you implying that on demand respect will be available in the final release? I would hope not. Respec if even possible should be extremely progressively and prohibitive expensive.
     
  18. Fikule

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    If you find it let me know, would be interested to hear it.

    I can't say the ability to respec and have no cap isn't required right now. But I would hope by release it would make sure you are more fixed in your role.

    Maybe unlimited re-specs before level 10. Then 1 per... week? on combat skills. Still think it's too liberal ^^

    I think you should be able to re-spec a craft 1 week after your last crafted item. Would make it far more profitable to remain as one craft, but if you really wanted to swap, to be something else rather than simply craft something else, a week without crafting would be worth it, and in that time you could be gathering resources.

    edit:
    reeaddding.... ^^
     
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  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    My understanding of the current thinking behind the respec is that it will be available at some kind of cost. Probably not as easy and on-demand as it is right now no but still available.

    What little we know of skill trainers is that eventually we'll have to go to different trainers.. but the bottom line remains that having to move around is just an extra hoop to jump through. Anyone determined to abuse respec will figure out the easiest, cost effective ways to do so..
     
  20. Anendrue

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    Or....
    have a maximum number of skill points for a character. When that number is reached any skill gain in one area is offset by a reduction in the skill you ignored the most. Thereby forcing players to be active in what they like to do but allowing respect to take place over time.

    EDIT: This would mean automatic allocation of skills such as in UO of course :)
     
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