Time to talk about economy!

With enough numbers I don't think it really would. Adding mobs only ensures only high level players or groups would go there. Randomizing might mitigate the issue somewhat but it remains that each possible location is still fixed. So you get multiple groups camping each location or a group camping a known location knowing eventually something will spawn there.

Being able to detect the resource isn't really a deterant once the location becomes well known.

 

All spawns should be that way. nasty and hard to obtain!

 

"So one of the things that was stated recently in a hangout that caused a bit of an uproar was that players won’t be able to enter into PVP zones in Single Player Online mode. So this topic is still open for debate. If players prefer, we can make PVP zones enterable in SPOnline mode BUT ONLY if we remove the rare resources from them. All elements of the game must have a risk vs reward element to them and it feels like what players want is for us to remove the risk but leave the reward and that can’t happen."

This in my mind is the toughest question. A macroeconomic question for a single player mode. Thats harder than balancing PvP and PVE.

 

I am reposting this from earlier

Over the years it has been said many ways. Those who do not learn from History, the past, or their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

So when recent discussions have been taking place about availability of resources in PvP areas, I have begun to scratch my head, not because I have lice but because I just do not understand.
I’m not going to go over all the different proposals I have heard from both Devs and Players since to do so could easily fill up 10 pages or more.

It is good to finally see a post that is challenging and or reconsidering this idea.

That brings me to the subject of this post. If past History in another game indicates that this or that did not work, then why would one try it again? Another saying that has become quite popular in the past few years is “The definition of Insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.”

In the latter years of Ultima Online there were several efforts made to encourage non-PvP players to participate in PvP. Those included double resources in Felucca strictly a PvP area. The addition of Power Scrolls in the PvP areas and not in Trammel a non-PvP area. The addition of Factions and Faction mounts and armor different and more powerful than those available in non-PvP areas.

Several reasons were given for these changes/additions. Risk vs. Rewards was a big one. Try PvP you will like it was another. Now we have a new one, “How will PvPers make Gold if they are not able to kill someone who enjoys harvesting resources.” To those who do not PvP however and do not wish to PvP in any form these are just Carrot and Stick approaches. That the real intent of all this was to bring non-skilled non-PvP players into a PvP area for the slaughter. That is why after Double Resources failed to bring non-PvP players over to the PvP area, Power Scrolls were added making the carrot bigger and bigger. Trouble was in my opinion it never worked. Yes there were small numbers of people who over the years tried, but in the end just found it a total waste of their time. Guilds and Groups created Ghost Cams to wait until those who tried these areas were almost done with the quest then rush in to take all the rewards. In the end you could walk through these PvP areas for hours and never see another soul. And is that not the gauge of success or failure, whether players participate or not. I submit that any approval of this type of system by PvPers was equally met by disapproval and disdain by non-PvP players.

In addition placing additional or unique resources in PvP areas means that you must then limit the areas which a Non-PvP player can travel in Single Player Online mode. That change requires additional programing time and cost. How many more changes will need to be made to restrict what a Non-PvP player can do? I have got to believe that the Developers and the players can creatively think of a much better way to make this acceptable to all, “Without Repeating the Mistakes of the Past.”

 

SPO No rares is fine. They could camp any rare spot so no need to give a handout.

 

Well as I ponted out before, that 'remove the risk but leave the reward" feeling is not what players have been saying. Every last person I've heard on the SPO side has been perfectly fine with "removing the reward".

And I hope we don't have to have that discussion all over again as in the previous 3 or 4 threads on the topic. I think all arguements have been exhausted on both sides at least a half dozen times.

 

hence I am replying very few times to this lol, what is left to be said?

 

New to this party, but by Chris' post it sounds hashed out. It all looked good to me. I think it will just require balance and tweaking. Inflation and the threat of hyperinflation exist in any real world market. I get the meat though, that we wanna do anything we can to avoid it but it will never, 100%, be off the table.

 

Well the point is to open up the discussiom we had in dev+ to everone else.

 

Which is a big reason I am in favor of player owned town currencies. It lessens the threat of having all you eggs in one basket. And nothing forces players to take your currency as a town owner. The risk is implied.

 

there is like a 20 page thread in dev+ that we hashed out over the last couple days, I'm kinda worn out on it actually. lol

 

Dev+ isn't the only place we've had that particular discussion though.. and it's been a lot of "PvEers want to do this" and "PvPers want to do that" and it really wears thin after awhile.

 

That is the conspiracy by Portalarium, wear us out so we won't complain.

 

Except the first couple of discussions were started by a player. So I'm not sure that theory holds.

 

Hmmm... Well I did start a discussion about Where is the line between griefing and PvP?

In the end it really does seem like Port is dead set to implement mechanisms for the 5% over the objections of the 95%. Confounds me quite a bit. In the end it just may be poor communication between the intent to deliver and understanding of the masses. Perhaps they need a communications director who would review release messages and ensure that the content is clear and concise.

 

Thank you, Lord Blackstone, for echoing my thoughts.

My reason for supporting alternative currencies, 3rd party (POT) or otherwise, is that they enable a market-based medium for the reconciling of inflationary pressures elsewhere in a macroeconomic model. An IRL example of this can be seen in the debate regarding Yanis Varoufakis' approach to the Greek Debt crisis. The fact that they are on a single currency (the Euro) is precisely part of why the fate of Greece and the rest of the EU are linked. By floating an alternative currency, they may be able to revaluate their obligations in a way that makes sense.

• [English] POT currencies allow for "fixes" to be applied, after the fact, to the pricing of goods or services. Either by the player-base or by the Devs. Or both. This would give Portalarium a "safety net", gods forbid that they make an economic mistake in the future. [/English]

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Ive even thought there may be some insurance that the POT must purchase. Talk about a sink and an inflation hedge!

 

I'm not sure I want to see people start speculating in currencies. Or, create fake monetary crisis' manipulating and wiping out entire swaths of people. The few who understand enough to do that could wreck economic upheaval. Any secondary currencies would have to be under the control of Portalarium.

 

Glad to see a good level of thought on the economy., and that they are aiming to get it right. Love the work orders. I believe they are making good choices for the direction of the game personally.

 

I have issue with the idea that custom coin will have different market value than the default currency. How for example, is the game to recognie the value of one currency over another? How will the vendors of a player owned town know that the value of that town's currency is any different than anyone else's?

Tracking the value of custom currency will be beyond the scope of not just EP1 but probably the game entirely. Alternate fixed currencies such as found in Serpent Islse might not have that problem but only because they are limited in number.

Plus as soon as custom currency varies in value with other currency we're now talking about exchange rates, market share and all sorts of unnecessary headache for both the players and the devs. Not to mention the amount of effort it would take for custom currency to be in enough abundance to support even just the regional economy.

Player minted coin would find it's value based on the metal its minted from. Same as any other coin. Bronze is bronze, silver is silver, gold is gold.