Time to talk about economy!

The difference is we have one government: IE portelarium to look over us and adjust if needed.
We do not need the power of the currency to be able to be manipulated in game via players.

 

Ok let's deal with this scenario. What you're essentially describing is value that is NOT tracked by the game and only holds any real value within an extremely limited market.

If you're selling rares in only your town's currency.. that means no vendors. You must conduct that transaction in person. Just so we're clear on that.

Now you're selling a rare for 10 town coin.. in order to get that 10 coin I have to pay 100 gold and I can really only spend that coin in your town. So why can't I just give you the 100 gold for the rare? I've basically giving it to you anyway.

Now you've got your 10 coin AND your 100 gold.. but outside your town you can only spend your 100 gold. You can't use your town coin on vendors because they'll only treat it as 10 gold rather than 100.. and your 10 coin is only valuable to anyone looking to purchase within your town.

To me.. this sounds like a scenario that prohibits your own town's residents from having vendors in your own town. Your town had better be awfully popular that a significant portion of the player population wants to shop there almost exclusively for your coin to hold value outside of your town.

So why then do I want to deal with currency that forces me to give you gold for the privledge of shopping in your town? When I can most likely get whatever I want elsewhere with the currency I already have?

At this point I don't care how rare your coin is.. unless I'm a coin collector.. in which case I'm not going to spend it anyway.

Basically what you're selling here is a pre-paid credit card I can only use at a specific store that doesn't have any exclusive items.

 

I expect there to be much whining a month or two after release about not having enough people in pvp zones to kill and how something needs to be done to try and get more people into pvp zones to support the griefing habits. You just can't dangle carrots in front of PvE people and think that will make them wake up one day and suddenly want to be a PvP'er. They already have those moments in UO, Daoc, etc. etc. where they were relentlessly griefed and ganked over and over embedded in their minds.

I've got guildies and friends in game and those that will play at release (depending the state of the game) that like PvP and some that are strictly PvE, and those that only PvE are already talking about the numerous ways they will avoid having to ever step foot in a PvP zone.

 

I think I understand your point. Please allow me to rephrase to make sure:

• You don't want currencies being manipulated by players.​
• You're ok with a currency that's managed by Portalarium.​

Ok. Good. I agree you. I'm all for letting Portalarium manage the POT (or any other) currencies.

I don't want players to manipulate currencies. I don't think anyone here does. I do want them to be available in order to provide additional market-based controls. Presumably controlled by Portalarium. On that, I think we can all agree.

 

I was so happy to see that sanity still persists despite the thousands of tangents and debates from the community, that I increased my daughter's pledge from Ancestor to Lord this evening.

 

If what you are getting at is that there is a larger picture, then yes. We are talking about Macroeconomics. Beran League may have towns in every corner of the realm and there currency is accepted there, either at banks and/or vendors.

My two burning questions(Sorry Ive missed out on prior discussions) are A) does gold have weight and B) is it global. The relevancy changes dramatically depending on these factors. Gotta go bowl with the family, so Ill stop spamming for a while.

 

what is the difference? One currency is enough. Why make it more complicated. So if portelarium makes different currencies to compete with itself? That makes no sense what so ever.

 

Yeah, that's a pretty good storyboard, except for one thing. Envision that the POT and/or Guild conducts their transactions (rent, taxes, etc.) in their currency. Not you have a REASON and a mechanic by which POTs or Guilds can incentivize.

I see the concern. But Vendors would still need to exist for global trade.

Please keep in mind, local trade-based currencies are flourishing around the world at the moment. Even here in the US. They fulfill a need by encouraging local commerce and trade.

A universal currency (SotA Gold) is easy to understand and great for universal trade. But it makes EVERYONE vulnerable to global currency fluctuations. Local currencies can assist local economies to grow even more organically. AND they can act as a counterweight to global currency crises. They co-exist IRL for a reason. They should here to.

 

RIGHT ON!!!

 

What I see, and I am taking this from Bowens post. If you can have 1 coin worth 10 gold, and 10 coins worth 100 gold, and if there is a weight limit imposed for currency, that you would be able to transport much more currency across regions. I am not sure if that is bad or good but I can see that being used.

 

Except banks and vendors won't know the difference. That's half the point. To them any custom coin would be worth the same as any other currency.

A: It should. If crafters are able to mint coin then it needs to be tangible and not just a number.
B: Don't see a reason it shouldn't be.

 

This is exactly the topic that I think was not addressed in OPs excellent post.

The real resources at play here are play time and real currency. I would like to see an expansion of the discussion on what the developers think about real money transactions. They (and I mean this to be a positive comment) are already trading on the perceived real currency value of in-game assets. I have concerns that any in-game economy will very quickly be governed not by in-game activity but by real money transactions. Eve has handled this one way and other companies have chosen other ways- what does not work is pretending it is not a game-play issue and punishing players for participating. Just saying, "these transactions are not our problem" is not going to be enough.

I am not proposing they implement pay to win or selling currency or anything like that, only recognizing that grinders, botters, farmers, and "code sellers." will impact the economy in ways that impact the enjoyment of the game for everyone. The UO approach of changing the policy every six months while insisting there is no issue wont really work.

 

That's one town I would not be a part of. People are going to earn default currency.. such a scenario forces them to go through an extra step of essentially paying the town to give them currency to give back to them. It's the same scenario as with the rare only even more unavoidable. That's not incentive to do anything but not live there if you ask me. One big pain in the rear.

Here's my 1000 gold for my 200 town coin.. .. now take the 200 coin back cause that's my rent. All that's doing is creating unnecessary redundancy that basically has zero impact. It doesn't change the fact I'm still paying 1000 gold for my rent.

If it were possible for players to earn custom coin to a point where they didn't have to exchange gold for it.. then you start having a basis for an economy with that currency.. but unless you can achieve that.. it just isn't feasible.

 

So if you mint PoT coins and exchange them for Portalarium gold coins. Then I have to ask myself why you want Portalarium gold coins instead of your own. Portalarium gold coins must be worth more as it is the coin you are actively seeking. So what happens when a town has amassed millions in Portalarium gold and they devalue their own coin by suddenly asking rent to be paid in Portalarium gold. The PoT gold is now worthless and a crisis of faith in the PoT coin exists. It is worthless now and many people are wiped out. I'm not saying a reliable PoT mayor would do this but what about unscrupulous ones? Will Portalarium restore faith in the PoT currency? Even if Portalarium controls the secondary currencies. A same crisis of faith in that coin still makes it worthless. At least with one coin of the realm no crisis of faith in the currency can exist. We only face the risks of hyperinflation.

 

What a good conversation. **majoria bows** So one note to remember pretty much anything that gets decided on will be tried out by us. There isn't much that we can't impact unless it's a system design that cannot change. So remember we will get
to see so much of this in action, and we will be able to say (of course with our open minds) why this is working or why this is not working. **cheers** to the awesome community and **cheers** to our fantastic development team. LOL just had to get that
out of my system because while reading this thread I was truly amazed I saw all the commitment and devotion everyone has for this game. What a wonderful thing.

 

qfe

 

This is true! I write lots of crappy stories that nobody reads. Is that fair? Of course not! I demand Portalarium tempt people to read my execrable poetry by giving them rare resources if they make it to the end in one piece.

 

I am still of the belief that coin should carry weight.

 

Do you own bit coins? Probably not, but some people do. And they accept the risks and benefits of it. No one would ever force anyone to buy xyz currency but it sure would come in handy against farmers, botters, and hyperinflation.

I want a real game with a real economy, a meta game with real estate, currencies, trade, shipping, and maybe even banking. So far, Portalarium is my best shot at getting this, so I care a lot about this subject. I did play eve for a while and they were pretty good but I came late to the game and don't care much for space. Plus, I think this Dev team is more creative and have a great resume behind them. Chris' OP was impressive and well thought out.

Anyway, call me crazy but I think a true meta game is possible, drawing a huge audience along with it. I enjoy RPG but think there is more.... Thats what a LB game stands for. Lets break some barriers.

 

Ok enough with the sheep to the wolves bull dinky least you forget...Some of us PVE players have been killing wolves since the day this game started!