Trammel Ruined UO

Discussion in 'The Kingdoms of Old' started by rschultzy80, Apr 16, 2013.

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  1. Rain Greyraven

    Rain Greyraven Avatar

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    I don't think anyone will remember me from UO, but I was a beta tester an early player of the game. I'm not going to list bragging rights or recount old war stories, I loved UO but didn't love the Murder squads, I saw a lot of my good friends have terrible unfun experiences and I watched them leave, I also saw an amazing group of people come together to effect change, we all were passionate about UO some of us were PVPers some were anti PVP but all of us saw that the issue was dire, and the developers agreed with us. I remember irc chats with devs that literally lasted hours about how to address the situation, anyone who was there knows they looked at every possibility and Trammel was the only answer because they were losing a lot of good people, and the player increase afterwards told them they did the right thing.

    Saying that Trammel ruined UO is simply inflammatory nonsense, it is effectively saying you ruined our fun by denying us victims and what most Anti-Trammelits miss is those people were going to or had left already. RG has made a lot of wise decisions I think the way he approaching PvP in SotA because anything that is forced is draconian.
     
  2. jondavis

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    The problem was half the population moved, my guild was gone, houses I shoped at were gone, rune libraries were gone.
    I tried to stay but our guild fell apart after the switch. Some over here, some over there, and some just left.
    Trammel was such a big change that I don't see how anyone could support that.
    Maybe small changes that lead up to something like that but to split the community in half was wrong.
     
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  3. Rain Greyraven

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    I totally get that, I'm sorry that happend to you and yes it was a very unfortunate side effect, but there was also a very belligerent attitude from some of the more vocal PVPers that made the devs and much of the community feel like it was the right move. No one even tried to step up and help fight against the murder squads, it was out of control and people were leaving and the mass exodus proved that the vast majority didn't want that environment. The one thing I wish was different that those of us who saw this coming in beta wasn't shouted down and the devs would have listened a bit more to us....that would have prevented the painful split, but that is all past us. We have a brand new start and both styles are going to be included, that is something to be happy about. :)
     
  4. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.
    TL DR, PvP and griefing are undoubtedly fun, but drives away a large number of subscribers if they have no safe haven to play. As much as I miss the old days, they we're vastly unfair to the casual player.
     
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  5. jondavis

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  6. Balnir Morlemaine

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    Trammel didn't end PvP in UO. I was there, on the Great Lakes server back in the day, and PvP was alive and well. Some of the best PvP fun I ever had was post-Trammel. Everyone who wanted to PvP or take the risks for better resources or dungeon loot still had the option to do so.

    What wasn't alive and well was ganking unarmed miners, and newbie-bashing. PvP became consensual, and suddenly people could raise their skills without getting roflstomped by someone who had the "foresight" to start playing the game sooner. Some people got really unhappy when that happened. People who wanted to take the risk for the better resources would still mine in Feluca (I did, and got killed sometimes, but usually managed to survive).
     
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  7. MagiK

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    Im glad I can play this without having to deal with PvP, Id never have pledged $75 for a UO like PvP experience.
     
  8. Robby

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    Wellllll to be honest the pk's need all the players who would stay in trammel if given the choice to be FORCED into one world with them. They need resource gatherers and newbies to bash! Thats what being a vicious murderer is all about. Someone who does PvP on an even playing ground is not a vicious murderer. Theres no need for a "criminal system" if people are all just dueling if you really think about it. They had the criminal system along with stat loss back in the day to deter greifers because they didnt want to limit our interactions with other players good or evil too much. Turns out this criminal system with stat loss and instant guard wack in town was not enough to deter players from slaughtering newbies and resource gatherers all day long and ruining the fun. So yea, as much as I myself enjoyed playing the character that chases down all the resource gatherers and harvesting their gathered resources after murdering them ill have to admit that to say "trammel ruined UO" is only true for a miniority of the players. Theres a fairly strong anti trammel group out there, enough to barely keep some of the shards running, but not enough to make a big hit game like UO was.
    I myself think that maybe there shouldnt be a criminal/murderer system with stat loss if there is no true murderers. Anyone who "opts in" to pvp is without a doubt all set and ready for battle along with anyone else who opts in to Pvp. Its all a fair, consensual challenge, its a duel. Its just like rocky balboa getting in the ring with apollo creed. To be "red" in fellucca was pretty much a cool thing, it meant you were an elite player that was probably winning a lot of fights with tough players who made the choice to go to fellucca all ready for battle. Why should their be a stat loss for the "red" players?? All the pvp they engaged in was consensual correct? We all know what we are doing when we go over to fellucca. We pretty much enter a big giant free for all arena. You dont dare mine their, and new players dont dare go their to level up their characters.
    I also think their should most definitely be a murderer/criminal system that is purely PvE. There should be no punishments for choosing this role like stat loss or anything, only punishment for failing just like if a player who chooses to be a do gooder dies when the dragon overpowers him.
     
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  9. Rain Greyraven

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    Pretty much....the whole issue is the part of human nature; people will not sign up to be victims, and that is what pro PK (who are different than PVPers) want and need....you just can't force people to play on your server, given a choice between dealing with Murder squads and another game that doesn’t deal with such things folks will take the latter any day. The people that will accept such a role want to become the predators so you are right back to your consensual dual paradox.

    A couple days ago I was playing Dammed and it had me thinking that this type of gameplay could be applied to a MMO, I certainly think that things can be added to give players that feeling of danger and still no revert to murder squads for kicks.
     
  10. menkje

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    To be fair, Trammel had good and bad points - good points included the ability to go into deeper parts of dungeons with a silver broadsword of power and not worry about losing something worth 20k to a murderer - bad points included removing some of the rush.

    The thing that really ruined UO was all the stupid luminous weapons that got introduced during later attempts to re-inject some life. Starting with the glacial staff etc.

    Thankfully it looks like that wont happen to SOTA for a while!
     
  11. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.
    wait, so your saying no neon staffs in sota? thats it im out.
     
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  12. Ted Striker

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    What I think should be done... hired armed guards. If you don't want to participate in open world PvP, then you can have a couple of "town level" NPC guards or mercenaries to higher. Then you're invincible to attack. They won't participate in PvE, only watch for players who target and attack you, or pretty much make you un-attackable. Seems a pretty simple fix.

    They can only be summoned inside of a town or guarded place, so you can't just bring them up in the middle of nowhere. And you can't drop them outside of town either, if you decide all the sudden you want to pvp. You have to drop then in town or a designated area.

    That way merchants, or gatherers can be protected. Either that or have RP, RPvP and PvP servers... That actually makes more sense than anything. Who did this? I forget. ya, So if you don't want to get PKed, play on a RP server. What's wrong with that? That's what they should have done besides trammel. Eseentially that was what Trammel was, a non PvP server...
     
  13. AuroraWR

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    Devil's advocate: Have a PvE world where you can pay for a license to PvP/PK.

    Yea, it sounds unfair and ridiculous. I agree. Having to pay to play a game in the style you enjoy is frustrating and unfair to whoever it is being forced upon.
    I say this as someone who may very well opt into open PvP, however not everyone will want to. The currently proposed system (as we undersand it) will take care of this through instancing people with like playing interests together. I don't really see the need to cause anyone to pay for guards.
     
  14. Ted Striker

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    RP, RPvP and PvP servers. As simple as that.

    PvPing except through accepted duels, or guild wars on RPvP servers only. And open world PvP on PvP servers.

    and no pking at all on RP servers. It couldn't be more simple, everyone is happy.
     
  15. High Baron Asguard

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    If your talking about SotA rather than UO then there is only one server, or there are 1000s depending how you look at it. Think of it more like 1000's of interconected LAN parties, the Server maintains the world, checks who owns which house, things like that. Your computer hoasts the game and then the server seeks to populate your "LAN Party" with people who will interest you

    If you have PvP switched on then those people will be PvPers, if its switched off then they wont be. You wont even see people who don't matter to you
     
  16. Ted Striker

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    Oh, I didn't realize. Kind of like what Neverwinter has done.
     
  17. Lesni

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    My opinion is that we are covered. Selective multiplayer for win. Those that dont like danger TODAY or want to do quild event, with out anyone else, press "friends only" and rock on. For all I care, and I kinda do. Im open for full loot PvP, for the danger. At any time I can opt out with selective multiplayer. In addition I really want bountys and laws/rules and long term concequences (for those that murder at the minimum).

    Why full loot? Well I expect the game work like original UO in some ways, this pointing out that it did *some* difference if you had reqular sword vs. vanquishing but that difference gave you edge not sure WIN. Way the enchanting is supposed to work is that you cast spells to items, charges - consumable. Mayby sword can have beter material, harder steel perhaps, but its harder to maintain while giving slight edge. My point is, if you get looted, you should not loose heartbraking amount of crusial things, but nearly easily replacable stuff. And that I think really fixes the whole thing and makes market for constant player made items.

    For definite Griefers add somekind of repultation system (not just killing but clear Grief/harrasment) so that this duce is less likely to be seen by "normal" online all playmode but rather seeing us s/he sees his ilk and kind and let them grief them self to death (and to quit) :) ...And you can just allways go "Friends Only" when going out of town. Am I delucional with this living in happy Selective multiplayer land or are we ALL covered?

    Ps. Im definedly "goodguy" not attacking anyone, but I like to defend my self (and get away) for the danger. It makes things more interesting. And there is load of good RP PK's out there.
     
  18. Nerull

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    Bloodrock Clan will kill anyone who does not give tribute. A gold coin will do, If not then your gold tooth.
     
  19. Polemicist

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    Agreed tremendously with OP. I know it's juvenile, but come on.


    This was the first *AND ONLY* game that provided the rule-set that many of us have been dying to replay since UO died.

    There hasn't been a single game that has come close to replicating those experiences.

    Not a single one.

    I don't understand why some members of this forum want to take the relaunching of such a pivitol IP, and melding it and warping it to fit the common conventions of modern theme-park, no-risk gaming. (Not saying that SotA is UO, or intended to be as such)

    Ugh.
     
  20. Mishri

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    My take on UO/Trammel was the implemenation was wrong. They needed to make it a place where you could level skills safely, have a safe house area, but couldn't do dungeons or treasure map hunts or anything else too serious. Needed to give players a reason to hang out in Fel too. They tried fixing that by having those champ spawns but that isn't the same...

    Basically it should have been the newbie hang out till they got used to the game, then go to the dangerous areas to really explore the game.
     
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