Discussion in 'The Kingdoms of Old' started by rschultzy80, Apr 16, 2013.
Trammel ruined UO for me, not for everyone.
The game hit its peak shortly after.
This is so well said, i couldnt agree with everything 100 percent
I'm going to highlight the highlights again.
If somebody doesn't want to play the way you want to play, that does not make them children, afraid, irresponsible, or dumb.
@Sir Frank, you're correct, but it also doesn't make what he's saying overall wrong.
Unfortunately, the two sides in their extremes are not compatible. I only hope that SotA can find the balance that makes them possible.
I agree that it does not make him wrong.
It isn't what he says, it's how he says it.
The lack of maturity is part of the reason PvP and PvE don't get along.
I share your hope that SotA can find the balance. In fact, I think they have by selectively matching us up with people who think like we do.
I hope you're right. I would like to hear much more about how that will work. Based on what I've heard I think it's going in the right direction but I still worry greatly about the balance of risk and reward.
It's very difficult to imagine a world where someone can dip their toe into PVP waters when it's convenient, and then shield themselves on the PVE beach when it's not. It's definately possible to balance this, but the devs have not shown (yet) that they will. Clearly, the easy path is to error on the side of a PVE focused game. But what a wasted opportunity that would be.
The people posting these 'full open PvP or go find another game' jives remind me of stalker ex partners who think they are still in a relationship with you even though you haven't seen them in 6 months.
Yes, perhaps if your "ex partner" represented a very large cross section of gamers that have been ignored completely by development teams for the last 15 years despite having begged them for balanced and meaningful pvp. Then yes, you're completely right.
Isn't that odd? Why would game developers, who are in the business of providing games for money to gamers that want to play them, ignore "a very large" group of consumers for so long?
There is probably a reason.
I do not think that you have the ability to support this claim. There is no 'Large Cross Section of Gamers' who support open world PvP. In fact it's a small fringe group of players and there is a mountain of historical data to prove it.
There are a number of reasons, some very good reasons. The one you're thinking of is that many of these same people make other people leave or not want to play their games. This is true.
But I would argue, and this is where most PVE type players start to yell while holding their hands over their ears, that the mechanics of these games were poorly designed. You can have meaningful PVP, even meaningful non-consensual pvp if you balance your game correctly.
In comparison to the hordes of players that SPECIFICALLY want PVE only (no risk) MMO's, you're right. Of course, if you start to widen your scope to first person shooters, action games, and just about any type of multiplayer game that allows you to kill other players, I think the case is fairly easy to make. In general, gamers like to kill each other. (See GTA and Halo as prime examples)
I don't think it's any kind of stretch to assume that this is an untapped and unexplored market for MMO's. If anything, the PVE side of the house is probably tapped out in comparison to the PVP side.
It's not untapped or unexplored. Most every game company has tried to some extent to cater to this audience with limited to no success. Some games have even been created specifically to support this audience and have failed miserably.
IMO you can't equate a RPG to a FPS. Apples and Oranges.
Beautiful post! Brought a lot of memories back. Great write up.
Without Trammel couldn't see me playing UO for long, I am not by nature a pvper, I think having the split worked out well.
That's very true, draykorinee.
Alot of people aren't very competitive by nature, or get tired of that kind of environment.
I am one of those people. I'm not competitive and get really bored of it, very fast. I'm way more interested in quests/stories.
I can never really understand this thought process.
Just because you operate in an open combat world doesn't mean that everyone is going to attack you, it doesn't mean that you have to go and attack others. It just means that you have to be a little more cautious with people (not everyone's intention is good) and if you decide to travel to an area that is not well populated it is best to do so in a group (a guild activity).
I dont believe it was necessary at all to implement trammel.
With even harder consequences for being a murderer, blue or red, it would have dramatically decreased the risk for the causal player entering outside city areas.
Statloss decreased the number of PK:s in felucca, alot, and with even harder consequences only the very few with very high playerskill would have stayed on that path. I know the number of PK:s decreased alot since i actually played the game before and after statloss was introduced.
I see trammel merely as a way to get some fast money and convince the uneducated that felucca was just an option not a necessarity. I agree that felucca had a bad reputation but that was mainly before statloss was introduced.
Though there was definitely a financial interest in doubling the landmass, especially where resources and housing were concerned; the root reason for creating Trammel and Felucca was to offer both PvE and PvP players separate areas in which to operate. The PvE crowd got their zone to RP and explore without the worry of getting ganked and the PvP crowd got the wild west that they craved.
Boy the wild west sure did clear out fast didn't it? Not many folks at all, even with the incentive of extra resources and all. Sort of makes a person wonder why all the PvPers didn't support it more, or were there really not many PvP players after all? Hmmmm... makes you think....
During UO Renaissance (after trammel) UO felucca had a higher PvP player community then before trammel. So your claim felucca was abandoned before Age of Shadows february 2003 (ruined UO felucca) just isnt right.
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