Trammel Ruined UO

Discussion in 'The Kingdoms of Old' started by rschultzy80, Apr 16, 2013.

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  1. Owain

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    Siege Perilous was well populated as well following the split until years later and Origin changed the game so much that players threw up their hands and walked away.
     
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  2. Ned888

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    Evidence does not support your argument. Sorry!
     
  3. Violation Clauth

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    I see what you did there...
     
  4. Caliya

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    It's amusing to see the "********" title is still here, after how many years? There are a lot of games that involve PvP (League of Legends, ok it's not an MMORPG, to name just one to PvP) and so very many others. There are many avenues of other games to get PvP kicks from. Trammel did ruin the PvP, but likely because most folks didn't want PvP but were subjected to it beyond their will. The vast majority of PvP folks I knew were 15 year old boys who were going through massive hormonal changes. I talked to many, was in a PvP guild off & on for a few years. UO, unlike most online games, appealed to a really large range of age of players. My teens and I would spend hours earning money to buy our first shared home, and work cooperatively. It's not a pleasant thing to watch a 14 year old cry when some jerk comes and res killed them repeatedly and took everything they worked so hard towards. In the real world, this is not reality. No teens should be exposed to the kind of ruthless behavior I've seen in UO. If you want that, you should play games geared towards 21+ years old. Of course, teens still play those because parents buy their subscriptions. You can't prevent that. There is no easy solution for this issue. One of the complaints about Assassin's Creed Online is that they refuse to make a coop mode. Instead, it's PvP only. Again, yet another game to get your MMORPG PvP kicks from. Does every single MMORPG out there have to meet someone's PvP needs? I would hope not.

    What I recall, above all else about PvP, is that PvPers weren't content honing their skills against equally equipped and experienced players. They enjoyed praying on people that became upset, deeply upset. That is what most PvPer's were after, the helpelessness of their victims. To feel power over the powerless. That sort of outlook is disturbing to me. It would be like some lone gunman opening fire on teachers, parents and children at a school, minding their own business. THAT is how it felt. Not the "pit skill against skill."

    PvPers dwindled because it wasn't as much fun to combat folks who were their equal.

    Even though UO came out in 1997, we were playing at a time when violence began an upsurge. I remember standing at Brit Bank on 9/11 and watching someone dye rags red, white and blue, laid them on the bank roof in the form of an American flag. When someone told me the twin towers had fallen, I thought they were joking. It was more than surreal.

    The world is tired of terrorism, of groups of people that pray upon the helpless. Right or wrong, we don't need more of that mentality in the world, especially not in a game that should be enjoyable and encourage good will. There are far too many violent games in the world, we don't need one more.
     
  5. Tarsilion

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    The children of gaming were the immature pricks who would purposefully hang around newbie spots, mind you we are talking kids with no gear whatsoever to loot, and whose sole intention was to upset new players not to fight or get loot.
    Indeed Trammel was implemented for THOSE children of gaming. There would have been no need for it without them.


    Those ruining the game for everyone never went for a challenge, they just bullied the weak.
    Also strangely enough you associate PvP with "a challenge". Most PvP games I know do not punish death and no long hours of game play are needed to get any level of gear or skill, as those attracted by those games are immature juveniles who have no patience whatsoever to acquire things. You saw that in UO a lot with scripting: The vast majority of those abusing game mechanisms had no interest in a challenge. They wanted instant gratification at the cost of others.

    And once that scheme was ended they would complain endlessly like toddlers whose lolly had been taken away after they threw it on the carpet repeatedly.
     
  6. eagled2

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    I agree that in pvp games more than often you find people like this who are just out to pray on the weak because that's how they get their thrill. That's one reason I have never been an avid pvp gamer. These people are everywhere, even in real life and i'd rather not deal with them during my leisure time. That being said I do enjoy pvp from time to time and also find that mmo's have lost the challenge. You often find yourself grinding your way to the top for the end content and then what. Keep doing the same thing ever and over again because that's all there is to do or get a new game. Yes we need some balance, otherwise no matter which way it goes it will not be as fun.
     
  7. Maus Merryjest

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    There's a lot to be said for PvP encouraging the bully mentality--- or, at least, attracting the bullies. More often than not, every time I was attacked the disparity of power was enormous- it wasn't an enjoyable match of skills, but rather someone who had found all the good stuff and who had decided that fun meant going to the places where the beginners gathered and trounce them without a hope of being even touched.

    I noticed that not only in UO but also in DC Universe Online. I would always try to engage villains who were more or less at my level- but every time I was attacked, it was usually by someone who was 20 or 30something against my little level 5 hero. I eventually switched to the PvE servers because there was no fun in fighting someone who was so far beyond you that you didn't stand a chance of making a dent. At that point those fights became nothing more than tedium--- where is the challenge in inevitability? Often I had to ask myself the question of what these people, whose characters were at the pinnacle of power in-game, got psychologically out of picking on the weak. The resulting answer was "nothing good."

    A PvP system that were closer to dueling-- for example, where you could not engage other players unless you threw down a gauntlet and the other player accepted-- is more along my line. This could even be extended to group vs. group, but the whole point is that with a system such as this one, you can have a higher chance of encountering that Test of Skill experience, versus the common experience of someone called "DogPe***" killing you and typing "LOLOLOLUSUK!" as he twerks over your fallen body.

    Just my two cents!
     
  8. Ravicus Domdred

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    Well stated Maus Merryjes!
     
  9. Derium

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    AoS killed UO. Simple as that.
     
  10. alexmreis

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    This is a reply to the OP.

    Oh yeah cos it was so much fun being res killed as a noob in the bridges of Britain every time you had to go to the bank - NOT!

    It was also loads of fun losing the ores and logs you spent hours gathering because some dumbass though it was cool - NOT!

    And it was really awesome when you were about to kill the dragon only to get shot down by an idiot with a crossbow who not only took away your best armor - you don't go killing a dragon on chain mail and a regular dagger do you? - but also killed the dragon after you left it at 10% health and walked away with your loot - NOT!

    Not to mention how totally awesome it was being res killed by the Ankh in the dungeon entrance by some low life who thought it to be fun.

    I'm all for PvP in controlled environments, or for the people who do like that experience, but a virtual world is very much different from the real world when it comes to violence since:
    1. You know you're not taking someone's life, and thus your actions have little consequence
    2. You get rewarded for doing so rather than punished and thrown into jail, be it with loot, experience, or just recognition
    3. Everyone else is doing it, and you've probably been ganked countless times before, so you need to gank others to feel good about yourself.
    I'd rather be able to opt-out of PvP, thank you
     
  11. Ferrus

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    Although I'm not sure how to specifically implement it, would it be worth considering a 5th play style option on login to allow for people who wish to have the open pvp experience only? Perhaps in this mode they could have it so there are limited safe zones or something. I'm in the OP's camp, (though I might have delivered it in less inflammatory wording) but it would be nice if we could all get a piece of what we are looking for.

    Either way looking forward to this awesome game!
     
  12. Duke William of Serenite

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    I agree Pvp could be used for rare resources. Let people fight over towns that are close to favorable nodes and or mines. That way Pvp becomes part of the crafting system. To craft a great sword you need to do business with the guild holding down the mine with the ore you need .
     
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  13. Myth2

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    Go forth minions of necromancy. Together, our legions of undead threads shall overtake all of Nobia! Muahahaha- An Corp! AN CORP!!

    [:)]
     
  14. Dark Tidings

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    Yea dude I agree, for me trammel destroyed the game
    They still added great stuff to it but the addition of trammel was such a drag on what was purely epic.
     
  15. Duke William of Serenite

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    I could not agree more. I used the term care ear In one of my posts and it got deleted . I guess the moderators here are playing favorites.

    As for UO and Pvp, best game ever . They knew how to balance risk and reward. Now Pvp is just bragging rights .

    Why these deva want to create yet another wow clone is beyond me.

    If maybe they can turn Pvp into something more rewarding then full loot.

    I actually provided some good examples like for example taking a mine and posting your NPC guards. Now Pvp isn't about who kills who. It's more constructive in the reward will be high tier armies because your guild now runs
    The mine.
     
  16. docdoom77

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    Of all the threads to bring back to life, someone chose this one? Ugh.
     
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  17. Ravicus Domdred

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    An Ort! *fizzle* An Ort! *fizzle* An Ort! *out of mana* ..... sigh.....
     
  18. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. draykor darkale

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    I have yet to see this sentence used in regards to SoTA but i guess someone had to pull it out.
     
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  20. Sire Lancelot

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    How did Trammel ruin UO? The only people who got peeved were the gate camping griefers. PVP is one thing - running amok is another.

    On saying that I would love to see the SOTA world operate like the real world. If you do the crime you do the time. I'm just not sure you could ever immolate this with instances - it changes the dynamics of the world.
     
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