Discussion in 'The Kingdoms of Old' started by Razimus, Apr 15, 2014.
Sorry Razimus, we like UO2. Maybe we are weird. XD
I was very joung but I renember that I loved that graphics of the "future" UO2. But take a look to the great Everquest:
And people loved that graphics and that game (not me, lol). That was normal, sometimes we forget how much not-awesome were the 3D in the PS1 times.
Ps1 times lol, you judge timelines based on consoles? traitor! the very last console I ever owned was the PS1, and the very last console game I played to the end was Final Fantasy VII, not many people know this but Final Fantasy was directly inspired by the Ultima series, without the Ultima series it's possible the Final Fantasy series would've either never existed or have been dramatically different.
As for UO2 it was worse than Ultima X and I despised Ultima X. Both games EA pieces of EA garbage and not surprisingly both games cancelled after a good amount of promotion. UO2 had Spawn artist Todd McFarlane design action figures for the game. EA didn't want those figures to go to waste, Todd having a fanbase, so they added all the characters from UO2, specifically the Todd action figures, into UO, released them as UO action figures and they were the worst selling Todd McFarlane action figures ever made. Ultima X had a big event with 'fans', these fans got bags with 'ultima schwag', they were able to play the game in advance and 10 seconds after the event the game was cancelled. Much like UO2 insane creatures were playable, rat people were apparently a major playable species.
I personally never played a single second of EverQuest 1, 2 or whatever one is out now. I always hated the graphics of EQ1 and saw the same horrible examples, the game was far more popular than UO ever was and I was never a fan of joining a bandwagon just because, the box art was annoying as well.
I was expecting that. XD PS1 was just a very "graphical" way to describe it.
Well, FF7 (good game) looks like Minecraft now. About UO2 /UX you cannot expect the same in a single game and a MMO. You need much more power to run a more basic MMO than a single player game, right? But you could check it, UO2 was not that bad.
Anyway at that time the 3D graphics were a little bit "eye-paining" (you know, the Alone in the Dark childrens) especially if we look with actual eyes. Probably the worst graphical system in the game history, since we have no problems with 8/16 bits.
Ah! Unicorns in UO were rideble (by women, for men you should use a ki-rin).
Mmmm, Alone in the Dark, great game!
I'm not sure why the hatred of UO2? Do people forget Starr Long and the rest of the team were working on this?
Was going to make this point as well, but had just finished driving 5 hours, and went to bed! *laughs*
As a matter of fact, I never played Ultima 2 where I believe like in the original Ultima you didn't have a choice of race, but I knew that in Ultima 3 you had not only elves as a playable race, but you had several others: "... In this game, the playable races are humans, dwarves, elves, bobbits, and fuzzies...."
Not just elves, but dwarves, hobbits (bobbits) and FUZZIES (which, if not for the fact that they were smaller than even (b/h)obbits, look suspiciously like they could have been the distant relatives of the Meer)! *laughs*
Oh, lets not forget that the reason they were able to keep the steampunk Blackthorn cyborg and it actually didn't stick out too badly was because that expansion also introduced Exodus, the demon-computer love child of Minax and Mondain, into the UO timeline.
So much for things like technology and non-human characters being non-Ultima.... Just sayin' *grins*
Own all three Actually, he was brought onboard to write the backstory leading up to the new cataclysm that would create the world described in these books... kind of similar to the way Richard and Hickman are creating and releasing the BotA, although BotA is more the ancient past of SotA, rather than the nearly immediate past that Austen Andrews created for UO2.
Loved the stories... he did a fantastic job of taking elements of the original Ultima fiction and melding it with the cobbled up ancient past and distant future timelines of the Meer and Juka.
Here's the 12 chapters of prequel fiction to UO2 that he wrote:
When you're a European medieval RPG fantasy fan from a young age and that's what you enjoy and consider Britannia to be and are told the next great thing is being introduced into Britannia and it'll be this...
It's not something to be happy about.
I enjoy space sims, but if Wing Commander automatically is transformed into a game about Unicorns
I'd be concerned for the same reason. If I were to name UO2, giving it a realistic title, I'd have called
it Mad-Mech-Punk-Cyborg-Warrior-Online, because that's what it looks like to me, and while
Mad-Mech-Punk-Cyborg-Warrior-Online might have been popular among a niche of the gaming
population I'd have avoided it like the plague. When I hear Ultima for some crazy reason I think of
the Avatar, Britannia, a European style fantasy world, Ultima IV, V, VI, VII, VII: Part Two, even
VIII & IX have such limited traces of Cyborg/Robot/Mech technology that I barley recall a few
Well, I renember the mechanic golems in UO and all those werid futuristic creatures in Ilshenar (I always call it Isengard , lol). They were not that bad. You can not like UO2, is a personal taste, but I dont feel nothign really weird comparing with UO1. I just renember this! (I know that is not modern technology, but I totally forget about this!):
Im also a fan of the fantasy epic worls, but I think thay we dont need to be that closed mind. But if you dont like is a taste... Nodoby is wrong here.
I don't mind *traces* of technology in traditional fantasy, but it really does have to be traces. Like in the old Judges Guild Wilderlands setting from the 70s, they had things like rusting cars, power armor, machine guns and the like scattered around the world, but
they were always described as some ancient relic of a bygone age and things like that work for me fine. Things like the image you posted - not so much.
I also don't mind interesting takes on fantasy and technology like what Monte Cook did in his Numenara setting, which was really, quite an amazing and unique work.
But yeah. Ugly resident evil stuff like the above or too much japanese art style stuff I can't take it. I love anime and everything, but not with western traditional fantasy tropes.
Well, they also can explain technology with a fantastic story. Or mix it with magic. I love oriental (and other) cultural stuff in games that supposed to be big and various. But they need to fit with the theme. And that mean not anime style. Samuai Empire was not a bad idea for me in UO, but at that time EA already take the wrong direction from before.
Also I liked that expasions with different cultural themes in GW1, but they mixed well together.
The pevious Ultimas had telescopes and traces of technology but nothing like Claw Arm Drill Arm Steam Roller Motorcycle Tank Man. As for mechanical golems, they didn't exist when I played UO but I don't mind the idea of them as they aren't much different than the Automatons from Serpent Isle. And SOTA being a somewhat technologically advanced world I'd expect both scientific versions of an Automaton and a magical version of an Automaton just as long as they don't look like Claw Arm Drill Arm Steam Roller Motorcycle Tank Man.
As for UO being an Ultima, here's the general consensus I've noticed...
1. Most Ultima Series fans *Do Not* consider Ultima Online an Ultima Series Ultima therefore nothing that ever happened in UO's existence matters Ultima lore-wise.
---- Zero 'story' from UO matters, the 'story' is just rehashed stories Frankensteined from the single player Ultimas and can't possibly matter.
2. Some Ultima Series fans like myself *Do* consider *Some* of Ultima Online an Ultima Series Ultima cutting off before Trammel on May 4th 2000 or at the Disbanding of OSI in 2001.
----- Little 'story' from UO matters, pretty much the two and a half minute long video at the beginning of the 1997 release of UO is the only story that matters because that was the only 'story'
that existed at UO's launch in 1997.
3. Very Few Ultima Series fans *Do* consider *All* of Ultima Online an Ultima Series Ultima.
----- All of UO's story from 1997 to 2014 should be official Ultima Series canon.
4. Even Fewer Ultima Online fans as a whole have ever played a single player Ultima Series Ultima I to IX.
----- The only Ultima I know is the Online one. There's an offline single player version of UO?
I suppose the point I was making is that it was the creators of Ultima who introduced the change, is it not their lore and world to craft? The bonus with UO is that it doesn't need to be accepted by fans. As Starr Long said many years ago, they are free to do what they want because each shard is independent of the prime Ultima world. So if the shards do something players don't appreciate, they don't have to run out the "canons". The lore is still preserved.
Richard Garriott made a great point about these medieval fantasy worlds being perpetually stuck in a level of low technology and no progression. Generally for no logical reasons. In saying that, are people bothered by these elements that will be present in SOTA?
Well, but we are speaking here about UO2, so you must consider UO2 part of the UO series. And about Ultima series and UO only EA can decide, but I dont care what they have to say. Anyway the Ultima history is dead, so...
The party in the top of the tesla tower in the 1 year anniversaty was the best ever! I hope Razimus never tried WoW, they have claws and drills and tanks and helicopters and even motorcycles for everyone, even too much. But was (or still is, I dont care) pretty popular.
As per that point... Doesn't necessarily need a logical reason unless as a storyteller you say "2000 years has passed." The Middle Ages lasted about 1000 years. Antiquity lasted longer. Many fantasy worlds are presumed to exist in some ageless Time of Legend, before antiquity, which lasts even longer -- just look at the timeline of Middle Earth. Its based on a kind of thinking that the further you go in the past, the slower the development is, and the more mystery there is in the world. Plus, in most fantasy games, there isn't even a few years between sequels. Ultima introduced greater disparities in time, like presuming that 200 years passed between Ultima VI and Ultima VII.
But I haven't minded RG introducing technological elements into the Ultimas, and don't mind him playing around with the concept of technological development in SoTA. You just want it to feel right and fit into the feeling of the rest of the series, instead of getting into silly territory -- which is what I think they were doing with UO2.
In reality, the differences in the various shards of UO, aside from the players themselves, but in terms of overall shard-lore/fiction was for the most part minimal at best. Large storyline-based events ended up playing out the same on all shards in the end anyway even in the best case "each shard determines their own fate" scenario.
There's a HUGE difference between "a level of low technology and no progression" and "Mecha-Borgthorn and his cyborg followers" corrupted by Exodus or no, and it was one that at least some Ultima/UO fans (myself included) was turned off from seeing. Yes, it's LB's world to make as he pleases, but we are still free to disagree with the concepts.
Also, to the above, NO SHARD was ever able NOT to have the UO2 content shoe-horned into UO, nor was anyone able to obtain the LBR (non)expansion without having to get an uncolored Borgthorn doll (and if you had multiple accounts at the time, that meant multiple retail copies as they did not sell upgrade codes alone).
As for UO2, for me, it simply was not time for a 3d UO, and the cyborg stuff was a HUGE turnoff.
For Ultima X, the environments looked nice, but the creature models were straight out of Disney.
For SotA, it looks like the techno aspect is going to be minimally and logically applied, and hopefully, it stays that way. No McFarlane stuff and no WoW Gnomish stuff please.
Which would basically be a reversal of sorts of Moore's Law which makes sense really. You also see this in the time-scales used for turns in Civilization (Early game turns advance the clock several years and even decades or more while latter game turns advance it a year).
I enjoyed the Tesla tower party and am a big fan of Nicola Tesla, I think the addition of Tesla technology is an admirable tribute and fits perfectly in New Britannia.
As for wow, I tried wow for 1.5 months, closer to 1.1 months, had 3 months of gametime but couldn't enjoy it much. I was a gnome that gnomed away with gnomish gold hording activities. As for Warcraft, it is common knowledge that Blizzard wanted to make the tabletop RPG Warhammer into a game pre-Warcraft 1, Blizzard consulted with the Warhammer people until they realized it'd be cheaper to change a few names and not pay anything, thus the origin of Warcraft is Warhammer but a very very very watered down version of it. This is why nothing is ruined in Warcraft's lore, it never had an original lore, the original Warcraft lore is borrowed 'inspired' Warhammer lore.
There used to be numerous articles on the subject, even mentions in wikipedia, but I just noticed a good portion of these entries have 'magically' been deleted from the net. There's still tons of proof leftover though. In a deleted Kotaku interview that can still be seen cached by google the Blizzard peeps even admit ripping off Warhammer, almost.
What I read was that Blizzard had a contract with Warhammer but the contract fell through, shortly after Warcraft 1 was released. The Blizzard peeps probably thought since Orcs and Humans aren't trademarkable there's no use in paying Warhammer for their story, even though the Warhammer story is way better than the Warcraft story will ever be. There are still obvious remnants of the Warhammer story though I don't want to research them as this debate is behind me I thoroughly researched the subject when Warhammer Online came out, but the main cities in Warhammer and the main cities in World of Warcraft's initial release are very similar, too similar, feel free to look them up.
The dark story of Warhammer/Warcraft... Dont forget that starcraft also have a strong inspiration in W40k (and after GW copied Protoss also ). I played a little bit Warhammer Online in the release. While I didnt like that much the game they had some good ideas. I liked those kind of "mini champions" (a zone with monters becoming stronger until a boss), and the Book of Knowledge was something that I could wish to see here.
Open PVP and sieges were also fine, but they become from Dark Age of Camelot.
Cool, yeah I liked Warhammer Online for about 1.5 months the same amount of time I attempted to like Wow, the #1 issue I had with WAR was the fact that the PvP arenas gave 10X the XP, whereas exploring in the world gave so little XP that everyone was grinding in the arenas 24/7, so this awesome looking world with battlements and siege areas of all types were empty by the end of the 2nd week when everyone figured out you could grind the PvP areans to level much faster, it was a huge mistake, it is in my opinion why the game never had a chance but it did have some creative elements, the questing was a little better than Wow, the story was much better, the group questing was better if anyone was there. As for the story it was better than Wow but I wouldn't say it was amazing, the name of the planet was "Warhammer", talk about a weak name.
I'm not surprised they also ripped off Warhammer 40k for Starcraft, I was never never never a fan of starcraft, the first copy of starcraft I got I ended up using as a coaster, perhaps I'm the ultimate game critic, but it comes from having played a lot of great games, expectations are high. The Ultima series stories are amazing and the SOTA stories are amazing from what I've read so far, I really enjoy the Blade of the Avatar book so far.
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