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Unable to untrain skills

Discussion in 'Release 35 Bug Forum' started by TarrNokk, Oct 28, 2016.

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  1. TarrNokk

    TarrNokk Avatar

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    10/28/2016 2:53 PM
    Title:Untraining skills buggy
    Reproduction Rate: 100% in relevant skilltrees
    Blocker? Yes
    Details: Some skills can't set to unlearn, even set to gain or not gain. Other skills I could set to untrain stuck at a certain level.
    Steps to Reproduce: Just try to switch to unlearn
    User Specs:
    OS: Windows 8.1 (6.3.0) 64bit
    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690 CPU @ 3.50GHz (4) System RAM: 8136
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 GPU RAM: 1953
    SotA.EarlyAccess.Win.64.497.Date.10.27.16
    Area: Novia
    Area Display Name: Novia
    Loc: (46.5, 13.3, -44.5)
     
  2. Balec Fares deCani

    Balec Fares deCani Avatar

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    Greetings, thanks for the report.

    If you have learned a skill that is a successor (i.e. lower in the skill tree branch), the predecessor skill cannot be unlearned below a certain level (the level required for the successor skill) ("Stuck at certain level")

    Also, skills below a certain level (the minimum level to learn their successor skill) can't be unlearned. ("can't set to unlearn")

    We do appreciate you reporting this, but really need more details to track down what might be happening. A screenshot would help immensely, along with the detail on specifically which skill(s) were affected by the different things you mention (can't set to unlearn, can't set to gain, stuck at level, etc).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  3. TarrNokk

    TarrNokk Avatar

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    Ok, here we go. I hope the pictures bring light in the dark.

    Air: Can't unlearn Dash. Can set to gain and "not training".
    [​IMG]


    Blades Combat can't switched to unlearn, only gain and "not training".
    [​IMG]

    Bludgeon and Polearms Combat is switched to unlearning but stuck at 20.
    [​IMG]

    Same with Death: Unlearning and stuck at 20.
    [​IMG]

    Light Armor: Escape is switched to unlearning and stuck at 1
    [​IMG]

    Moon: Vanish and Moon Worship can't switched to unlearn, only gain and "not training".
    [​IMG]

    Taming: Summoning switched to unlearning and stuck at 1.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  4. Balec Fares deCani

    Balec Fares deCani Avatar

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    Thanks for the details!

    For reference, here's the relevant section from the R35 instructions.

    Skills have minimum requirements for the preceding skill(s). This also means that each skill has a minimum skill level below which it will not decay. This minimum skill level is based on the requirements of child skills in that skill tree. A skill cannot drop below the point where you would no longer qualify for any child skill. For example, the Bladed Combat skill will not decay below level 20, as child skills like Riposte require Bladed Combat be at least that level.

    Until a skill reaches this minimum skill level, it may only be set to Training or Not Training.

    Training: The skill will advance each time a relevant skill is used, consuming EXP from the appropriate pool. It will also consume pooled EXP on death to maintain it’s current level and negate decay.

    Maintaining: The skill will not advance or consume EXP if used. It will only consume pooled EXP when the avatar dies, to maintain it’s current level and negate accumulated decay. Skills below the minimum level to learn their dependant skill do not decay on death, and cannot be set to Maintain.

    Not Training: The skill will never consume EXP and will decay on death. (Above its minimum level)

    Unlearning: The skill will never consume EXP and will decay on death. The skill will quickly lose experience as other skills gain experience. A portion of the experience deducted from the skill will be refunded back into the Experience pool. Skills below the minimum level to learn their dependant skill do not decay on death, and cannot be set to Unlearning.

    Skills [at or] below the minimum level to learn their dependant skill do not decay on death, and cannot be set to Unlearning.
    - think this is working as expected

    Not sure why this stopped at 1 rather than 0. Should be investigated (or is 1 what you start with when you learn it? - maybe it can't go below that)
     
    margaritte likes this.
  5. SteelCore

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    I dont think so. Take the Moon-Tree for example. TarrNokk just want to decrease Moon Worship and Moon Eater isnt activated at all, so there is no dependant skill for Moon Worship. But he cant set it to unlearning.
     
  6. Balec Fares deCani

    Balec Fares deCani Avatar

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    It's a valid question; does the definition of dependant skill take into account whether someone has learned the subsequent skills or not. You seem to be suggesting that because he hasn't learned the subsequent skills that he should be allowed to untrain the predecessor. I was interpreting the instructions, particularly the sentence below, to to base "dependant" on the existence of a subsequent skill in the tree"
    That last sentence clinches it for me....until the skill reaches the minimum level (i.e. for sure you haven't learned the subsequent skills) it is not allowed to be set to Untrain (and there would be no reason to set to maintain because it is not subject to decay) - seems to be the situation with Moon Worship above.
     
  7. SteelCore

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    True, i understand it the same way. As long there is no skill cap it shouldnt be an issue.
     
  8. TarrNokk

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    I am now more confused than before and do not understand the system. Example: Bludgeon as well Blade combat are the basic skills in their tree. No other skills are even bought by a trainer. Why shouldn't these skills decrease to 0 ? Why stopped Bludgeon at 20 and Blades at 13? Why can I set Bludgeon to untrain but Blades not? There is no visible logic behind this case. BUT as long there is no skillcap I will not bother any longer. Many thanks for your effort.
     
  9. meadmoon

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    I have a concern about this and filed a suggestion in another thread.

    I understand the "cannot drop below minimum" because there a child skills, but if you haven't trained (purchased) the child skill(s) then you should be able to untrain a skill to zero. Not letting us do that makes no sense whatsoever.
     
    discipleofweb likes this.
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